E U. Should we stay or should we leave.

[barry luxton]

All i see are images ?

Won't let me copy, if you click on it underneath the green petition on the right hand side is text. by the time you have found it and read it, your name has been added.

[barry luxton]

wasp chewer hits a wall:

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14584885.EU_Council_President_Donald_Tusk_snubs_Nicola_Sturgeon/?ref=rss

[big_cod]

https://youtu.be/h2D8MB5s8Jg

Edited June 28, 2016 by big_cod

[Steve Burke]

I've had neither the time nor the energy to follow this topic so don't know whether the main point I'm about to post has been mentioned. However I do want to nail my colours to the mast.

 

I'm not normally a political animal but feel extremely strongly about this issue.

 

My vote was for remain.

 

Quite apart from the adverse economic and unemployment consequences, quite apart from the difficulty of achieving access to free trade with the EU without being able to restrict immigration, we also have to think about our children, our grandchildren and even our great-grandchildren.

 

Few realise that as a consequence of this vote the whole world, and not just the UK, is likely to be a very different place, not for just a decade but for a century.

 

With the problems that the planet faces we need to come together not split apart.

 

For this reason I feel the UK leaving the EU is a backward step.

 

When history looks back at this time I fervently hope that it doesn't find that the UK (or perhaps what's left of it!) lost out economically without getting the reduction in immigration that the Brexit voters want.

 

I hope that history also records that the early 21st century was the time of the death throws of nationalism, and that after that the human race finally matured.

 

Few will agree with me now but I'm convinced that future generations will look back at nationalism as an archaic concept. By then hopefully we'll have a world government to deal with the worldwide problems the human race faces.

 

I therefore want to go on record to say to my children, grandchildren and their as yet unborn grandchildren that here was at least one of the baby boomers that thought of their future.

[Sportsman]

Well said Steve

[barry luxton]

I've had neither the time nor the energy to follow this topic so don't know whether the main point I'm about to post has been mentioned. However I do want to nail my colours to the mast.

 

I'm not normally a political animal but feel extremely strongly about this issue.

 

My vote was for remain.

 

Quite apart from the adverse economic and unemployment consequences, quite apart from the difficulty of achieving access to free trade with the EU without being able to restrict immigration, we also have to think about our children, our grandchildren and even our great-grandchildren.

 

Few realise that as a consequence of this vote the whole world, and not just the UK, is likely to be a very different place, not for just a decade but for a century.

 

With the problems that the planet faces we need to come together not split apart.

 

For this reason I feel the UK leaving the EU is a backward step.

 

When history looks back at this time I fervently hope that it doesn't find that the UK (or perhaps what's left of it!) lost out economically without getting the reduction in immigration that the Brexit voters want.

 

I hope that history also records that the early 21st century was the time of the death throws of nationalism, and that after that the human race finally matured.

 

Few will agree with me now but I'm convinced that future generations will look back at nationalism as an archaic concept. By then hopefully we'll have a world government to deal with the worldwide problems the human race faces.

 

I therefore want to go on record to say to my children, grandchildren and their as yet unborn grandchildren that here was at least one of the baby boomers that thought of their future.

the eu have commenced in shutting down the u k charter boat industry this year, they have also had 40 years strangling the u k fishing industry with ruining the massive amount of seas and stocks the u k used to enjoy. It continues with subsidising the over bloated e u fleets. That will now thankfully come to an end.

 

The e u's c a p is a black hole money pit that takes up to 50% of ALL e u taxpayers funds, permanently. Subsidising the likes of tate and lyle to produce nothing yet to receive half a billion euros. The schengan agreement has meant it relatively easy for all and sundry to cross into the e u countries causing massive upheaval.

 

And the e u mainland, the e u's policy have created a massive amount of youth unemployment.

 

The above is good enough reason for the e u to look inward and realise it needs a bloody big boot up it's arris. Even today tusk has put a huge caveat on the u k remaining in the free market. In other words they ain't even listening to the damage that their policies have caused. No thank you..

Edited June 29, 2016 by barry luxton

[gozzer]

I too am a baby boomer Steve, and I voted out, because I believe that my kids, grandkids,etc, will have a better future out of the EU, in it's present form.

 

You will never get rid of nationalism, or it's equivalent (religion), completely, because it is embeded deep in the human psyche. Humans are different, we all need different things to believe in. To some it's their country, region, city, to some it's their god/gods, to some it's a sporting team, and to some it's wealth and power. Just how far people will go to defend or protect those beliefs, is shown in the horrific events over the years.

 

Our whole society is built, and thrives on, competition, driven by national, and commercial interests. As the population grows, and land and resources become stretched, so will the competition, the desire to protect what we believe is ours. I'm not one of those that believes that we will evolve into some 'angelic', peaceful, entities that will spread love and light across the world. I can see us regressing, fighting for the things we need, until we come to our demise.

 

John.

[barry luxton]

under the rules of the e u regarding free movement:

 

Every EU citizen has a right to enter the UK under EU law. But EU law does not require other EU member states to inform the UK on a systematic basis of the criminal records of their nationals, creating an effective right of free movement for criminals.

While all murderers convicted in the UK are subject to supervision for the remainder of their life on release, this does not apply to those convicted of murder in other EU member states, to whom no effective supervision requirements apply.

• Dossier of 50 most dangerous EU citizens allowed in UK
• 45 went on to commit serious offences in the UK, including murder & rape
• Unamended EU law means free movement for criminals

 

 

‘Do we have to take in anybody, even if they have a conviction for raping a child?’

Lady Justice Hallett, 18 January 2012, link.

 

‘Even with your convictions for murder and assaults you were free to enjoy the same freedom of movement as any other European citizen’.

His Honour Judge Kelson QC, 28 January 2012, link.

The EU criminals we have identified include:

• Victor Akulic, a Lithuanian with many convictions including for child rape, who within a year of entering the UK committed rape, with Lady Justice Hallett asking, ‘do we have to take in anybody, even if they have a conviction for raping a child?’
• Eduard Peticky, a Slovakian with several previous convictions in Slovakia, including for the rape of two women, who was convicted in the UK of sex trafficking and sexual abuse of children in Rotherham.
• Arnis Zalkalns, a Latvian who murdered his wife before moving to the UK and murdering 14-year-old Alice Gross.
• Ireneusz Bartnowski, a Polish national with previous convictions who killed Guiseppe and Caterina Massaro within weeks of arriving in the UK in an attack the judge described as ‘evil beyond belief’.
• Mariusz Florowski, a Polish national with multiple convictions, including for armed robbery, who killed a man with a blowtorch before dousing the body with petrol, in an episode the judge described as ‘torture’.

and this is what tusk told all today:

President of the European Council Donald Tusk has ruled out free EU trade access for UK without also allowing freedom of movement.

 

He said the remaining 27 nations are "absolutely determined" to stay united after Britain's depature

 

"Leaders made it crystal clear that access to the single market requires acceptance of all four freedoms - including freedom of movement," said Mr Tusk. "There will be no single market a la carte."

Edited June 29, 2016 by barry luxton

[Steve Burke]

Thank you, Barry, your reply illustrates my point beautifully!

 

Whilst the charter boat situation is obviously very important to you personally it pales into insignificance in the historical context. In fact I doubt it'll even rate a footnote in the history books.

 

Neither will the EU rule regarding the banning of chemicals to control the weed at Wingham, that's given me and others a great deal of grief and a huge amount of extra work. Despite this I looked at the wider picture and voted remain.

 

John, unlike you I'm more of an optimist. Many years ago human families formed tribes then villages. Next came city states and then countries, and now groups of countries.

 

The world is getting smaller, and this process is being accelerated by the invention of the internet. I accept that for many, especially amongst the older generation, this progression is too fast.

 

However few from the days of empire would have thought that colonialism would be considered the outdated concept it is today. In the same way I believe that future generations will feel the same way about nationalism, although as I posted before I don't expect many to share that view - yet!

 

It may be that your pessimistic outlook will turn out correct; certainly I agree that the human race faces immense problems. But that doesn't mean we should give up as then we'll surely fail. Over the course of history we've already made great progress. It might need a common threat like climate change or some other disaster to pull the human race together, but pull together we'll eventually do.

 

I just hope it's sooner rather than later.

[barry luxton]

quote Steve: Thank you, Barry, your reply illustrates my point beautifully!

Whilst the charter boat situation is obviously very important to you personally it pales into insignificance in the historical context. In fact I doubt it'll even rate a footnote in the history books.

 

...............................................................................

 

It's more important to those charter boat skippers who have paid out say 1/3 of a million for their charter boat to find out that they are loosing bookings hand over fist because of e u ruling that has nothing to do with the preservation of fish stocks as it missis the target, so not in a million years will this new legislation be fit for purpose. And there's more in the pipeline.

 

I note you didn't comment on the bigger picture regarding the failed cfp or the black hole c a p or the fact that the e u borders are open to all. Or the europeon unemployment.

 

That's not something I can subscribe to, it needs fixing

Edited June 29, 2016 by barry luxton