The Ultimate Gaff - My reply

[Davy Holt]

Hiya,

 

I know this ie really an issue with Sea Angler mag, but the letter is refering to what was said on the internet regarding a certain Common skate and as I dont know what forum he was reading it from I have posted this on the 3 forums that I use

 

I hope you dont mind Elton

 

 

After reading the letter from Joe Shirley, in this month letters page in Sea Angler I want to try and clear up this confusion once and for all.

 

Gaffing of Common Skate

 

Despite what has been said by some non skate anglers on the internet, there is no other practical method for handling common skate available to the angler. Yes they can be handled without the use of a gaff until they get to around 130lb, above that it’s a case of using a light gaff in the wing or do not remove the fish from the water. The second option is the best for the skate but when you are trying to collate data for a tagging programme you really need the fish in the boat to get accurate data. Now so long as it’s done correctly, gaffing has no detrimental affect on the skate and they have in fact been recaptured again 50 minutes later after being released. Correctly gaffing means the use of a small gaff (the gaff head that Mustad make is ideal when fitted to a good hardwood pole) and gaffing the fish around 2” in from the leading edge of the wing and from half to three quarters of the way out the leading edge of the wing. Although it’s recommended to gaff around 2” from the edge there is quite a bit of leeway before you get to any areas where you could cause damage.

 

The fish in the picture that Mr Shirley refers to, was gaffed correctly, though the gaff is further away from the edge than I would have liked, it is still perfectly safe where it is. Also if you look closely you will see there is “ONLY” one gaff hole, the one the gaff is in and not multiple gaff holes as suggested and no tear, let alone a sizable one anywhere on the fish.

[spasor]

Hello Davy. You nasty sod? I doubt it more than a tad.

I`ve been shown the letter in question in SA, plus Mel Russ`s gleefull heading? It seems that this Joe Shirely spends a lot of time on Internet fishing forums. As I know hundreds of anglers by their `handle` only, but know just as many people by their propper christian names only. Yet of the people named Joe, none has the surname Shirley.

Can anyone shed any light on the identity of this avid internet angler? What, I`m really asking is? Is this Joe Shirley an avid user of fishing forums, or merely a `Stirrer`!!

Having actually fished with Davy, and been shown how to handle a skate with respect. I`m more than a tad "P)**ed Off", with this unneccessary slur. No wonder a pic of this individual wasn`t printed.

:mad: :mad: Paul. :mad: :mad:

PS. I`ve found out who either emails me articles from SA or leaves a copy outside my office door. It`s my postman!!!

[chris parker]

Why rise to it Davey? I do not know you personally but you come over as an expert on skate and I know whose advice I respect the most and it is not Sea Angler on this subject.

 

I think Sea Angler needs fresh blood in the editors chair. I used to respect the publication but following the skate episode and other issues including this months gafs I will be thinking very seriously about buying any more.

 

In last months editorial there was a rant about getting more punishment for using an edible crab as bait than if you were to burgle a house. In this months mag on P18

" However like red edible crabs, they are difficult to keep alive to get to the perfect state of peel because they cannot breath out of water"

Does this mean, by implication, that we can once again use edible crab without penalty, why was no caution appended to this for new readers?

 

Also same issue P41 there is a article on Stainless hooks

" great for cod, ling and pollack over wrecks or fishing for ray in the larger sizes"

I was under the impression that purely from a conservation angle stainless should not be used and for a national magazine to promote their use for the fish stated is a scandal. There is no situation where the use of a stainless hook is justified IMHO.

 

I am with Spasor on the identity issue.

[Vagabond]

Having fished with Davy and seen his expertise in catching, gaffing, tagging and returning big skate unharmed, I can confirm his post above is spot on.

 

I think Davy is right in suggesting much of the criticism comes from those with no experience of big skate. I have caught a few decent-sized skate myself, and been present at and assisted with the capture of several more, and anyone who thinks they can be dealt with other than by gaffing (or in-the-water release at the boatside) is just showing their inexperience of these big fish.

 

It is interesting that the shortest capture to re-capture interval Davy mentions is 50 minutes - that seems to tell us the skate in question had recovered from any "stress" (real or imagined) well enough to be feeding again very soon after return.

 

At the other end of the scale, tagged big skate have been recaptured several years later (some more than once) which seems to suggest there are no long-term ill-effects involved in the capture, gaffing, and tagging.

 

What is the longest time between first tagging and re-capture you have recorded Davy?

 

[ 24. March 2003, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: Vagabond ]

[Alan Taylor]

Vagabond:

feeding again very soon after return.

Having also had the good fortune to have fished with Davy, I can tell you that you (and the fish)

work up one heck of an appetite after a 1/2 hour plus tug of ...

 

I have not seen the offending article yet but will comment when I have.

 

Alan(nl)

[Cranfield]

I have only caught skate, when with an experienced charter skipper.

The care with which those fish are handled , would put carp anglers to shame.

Correct gaffing, is the only way to handle a fish of that size safely.

 

The sort of inconsistancies and downright bad information, mentioned by Chris Parker are just some of the reasons I stopped buying the magazine some years ago.

[Davy Holt]

Hiya,

 

Paul… like yourself. I’ve been on the Net for a very long time and seen a lot of people come and go… but Joe Shirley is not a name that springs to mind so I’m also a bit suspect as to his existence. If I’m wrong I’d be quite happy to take him out with me for a weekends skate fishing to show him just how it’s done correctly.

 

Chris… why rise to it? For the sake of the skate mate, there has been a lot of work put into the tagging programme and the Biodiversity Action Plan and I’m not going to sit back and let anyone try and undermine that work with misinformation. The personal attacks, they don’t bother me as anyone that knows me will testify.. I’m rather thick skinned

 

Vagabond… the longest between captures that I know about is 10 years, an adult female tagged when she was 170lb, I caught her 10 years later and 17 mile from her point of release. Her weight gain in 10 years… just 8lb, which would suggest she was fully grown. Last year we had quite a few fish that had been tagged 5 years previous around the 30lb mark were being re caught at weights up to 140lb.

[Orca]

Davy Holt:

 

The personal attacks, they don’t bother me as anyone that knows me will testify.. I’m rather thick skinned

Thick and admitting it...Oops sorry I didn't notice skinned in there

[H Jampton]

spasor:

Can anyone shed any light on the identity of this avid internet angler?

Edited to preserve the personal details

Regards

Alan

 

[ 28. March 2003, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Alan Roe ]

[Davy Holt]

quote:

---

Originally posted by H Jampton:

 

There nearest thing I can find is..............

 

[/QB]

---

Hiya,

 

A quick check on google threw up a J........that posted once on uk.rec.fishing.sea regarding saltwater flyfishing. It sounds like that is the same person that wrote the letter in Sea Angler. Tis a pity.. he could have mailed me direct and had it sorted out without all the added crap.

 

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&...4.svr.pol.co.uk

 

[ 28. March 2003, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: Alan Roe ]