Pike Anglers: Compulsory Courses?

[robtherake]

Ha ha; nice post. Is that the same medicine that the lake "doctor" brings round the bivvies for the late-night pipes of peace?

 

Edit - Apologies to all for pulling the thread further off course.

 

I'm only an occasional pike angler and a bit of a fishing loner. My first few pike, well - let's just say that I wish I'd either taken some instruction or gone with an experienced predator angler to gain some experience. I didn't manage to kill any fish that I know of (save a couple of jacks lure-hooked in the gills), but it quickly dawned that an ordinary pair of forceps was never going to cut the mustard.

It's a given that many "seasoned" pike anglers are self-taught and still hopeless, but a surprisingly large proportion simply don't have either morals or conscience, so what happens to the pike post-capture doesn't bother them at all, and most likely never will. If they come across a water with a "no training - no fishing" policy they'll just go elsewhere.

Edited December 22, 2012 by robtherake

[grayson]

Late response to this thread -this is a difficult one; whilst I have no problem in people looking after their catch (and being helped in technique by fellow anglers) I have a very big problem with self appointed expets telling me what I should do. Some pike anglers believe fervently that no fishing should take place until October(I'll fish in the legal season thanks very much-nearly all of my piking is on rivers anyway ) , others tell me I should be shot because I don't always use an unhooking mat (reason- some of my piking involves wading whilst plug fishing and fish are simply unhooked in the water )(reason 2- some of my waters have very soft mossy banks- what is the point of a mat ?). As for antiseptic and post capture trauma counselling- FFS it's a bloody fish...

 

Personally I do not livebait- it's legal but I find it abhorrent. Never more so than when I get the pike police setting me a moral code whilst being apparently quite OK about doing something which is as far removed from care or respect for the fish as it is possible to imagine according to my own views. Livebaiting is your choice- but do not presume to lecture me about fish care...

 

The last thing I need is some joyless drongo imposing their own moral code on me- I know how to unhook pike but f**ed if I have to prove it to the Esox Taliban ....

[Newt]

Little fish have always been food for big fish. How is live baiting any different?

[grayson]

Little fish have always been food for big fish. How is live baiting any different?

 

 

It is an emotive subject and one which polarises views.I don't want to get into that whole debate again but quite simply the difference to me is this- nature is red in tooth and claw so predators atack prey in ways which sometimes are pretty ugly. If the results of predator attack were replicated by angling activity we'd be appalled. We learn to treat our 'prey' with respect- we do stick(usually barbless) hooks in them but we care for fish welfare so we unhook and return fish carefully.

 

We fish for fun- it may be the remnants of our hunting gene but nearly all fish - including salmonids - are now returned. Pike anglers are very concerned for pike welfare- they may get a bit messianic sometimes but thank God we have moved away from gags and gaffs eh ? The first problem is hypocrisy- I won't be lectured about fish welfare by somebody who mollycoddles pike but livebaits with roach. Do fish only deserve respect if we fish for them ? Because I don't see much respect for bait fish in livebaiting...

 

The problem for me is therefore reconciling welfare and respect for fish by using a living fish as a tethered bait for pike- it can be left in the water for many times longer than we would ever play a fish , impaled by hooks often stuck in the fish's back. I can't and won't do that- I find it morally unacceptable. But it isn't illegal and if you want to do it that is up to you and your conscience- I won't criticise you for doing it but respect my choice not to do it ok ?

[chavender]

as someone who as killed his share of pike ,perch & gudgeon in my time ,i estimate i killed around 12 pike ,11 of which was for food ,i murded (my first a jack pike) it with my ineptitude & ignorance ,it leaves its mark on a 10 year old ,and it still my biggest failure as a angler ,it wasn't something i wanted to repeat ,i had to teach myself how to do it right ,and would of loved to do a quick course (i think all my local clubs had but one pike rule back then ,kill it & toss it) ,even then i didn't fish for pike again until i knew i had someone there as back up .

 

i believe a course or test would be good thing not just for predator fishing but all angling ,even if it was just a set of on line masterclasses and question session ,where by prospective anglers (junior anglers under 12yrs olds {although i think this should be raised to 16} ,only allowed with licensed adult angler) sit through a set of masterclasses that demostrate all fish handling and other important aspects ,then answer random questions (multi choice) based on a unified rules/codes of conduct (including bylaws) and then be issued with a pass number {or not) which they would need to apply for their first license (which the authorities could verify before issuing the license) ,this might not be a perfect solution ,but it would be better than the free for all ,we have now .i don't even mind having to take such a test retrospectively

 

theres plenty of things we have to take a competancy test for , you can't take your driving test without a theory test first ,in work we often take tests to proove competency to do a task .so why not fishing.

[Phone]

chav,

 

This is not an important subject to me. It is "cultural" in the UK I guess.

 

The one execption I would take to your comment is that taking a driving test prevents you from killing another humam being.

 

Pike are just fish.

 

Phone

[Anderoo]

Fine if you object to livebaiting (and until fairly recently I was in that camp), but the fish in your packet of frozen deadbait did not end up there with any less suffering.

[JV44]

It is an emotive subject and one which polarises views.I don't want to get into that whole debate again but quite simply the difference to me is this- nature is red in tooth and claw so predators atack prey in ways which sometimes are pretty ugly. If the results of predator attack were replicated by angling activity we'd be appalled. We learn to treat our 'prey' with respect- we do stick(usually barbless) hooks in them but we care for fish welfare so we unhook and return fish carefully.

 

We fish for fun- it may be the remnants of our hunting gene but nearly all fish - including salmonids - are now returned. Pike anglers are very concerned for pike welfare- they may get a bit messianic sometimes but thank God we have moved away from gags and gaffs eh ? The first problem is hypocrisy- I won't be lectured about fish welfare by somebody who mollycoddles pike but livebaits with roach. Do fish only deserve respect if we fish for them ? Because I don't see much respect for bait fish in livebaiting...

 

The problem for me is therefore reconciling welfare and respect for fish by using a living fish as a tethered bait for pike- it can be left in the water for many times longer than we would ever play a fish , impaled by hooks often stuck in the fish's back. I can't and won't do that- I find it morally unacceptable. But it isn't illegal and if you want to do it that is up to you and your conscience- I won't criticise you for doing it but respect my choice not to do it ok ?

 

Grayson have i missed something here is anyone not respecting your choice not to?

[Phone]

JV,

 

Grayson says, "I find it morally unacceptable". Since the previous sentense has multiple subjects - one can't figure out what "IT" is. It sounds to me like in his heart of hearts he finds angling "morally unacceptable"?

 

Grayson, Is "it" live bait - i.e. lobs - you object to?

 

Phone

[chavender]

chav,

 

This is not an important subject to me. It is "cultural" in the UK I guess.

 

The one execption I would take to your comment is that taking a driving test prevents you from killing another humam being.

 

Pike are just fish.

 

Phone

 

 

i agree its not on the same level as getting a actual driving licence & that fish are just fish ,not just pike are in danger of being killed by incompitant anglers all fish are in danger.and a test would be a minimal safeguard not just for the fishes safty but the anglers

 

by the way we have a two part driving test ,the first is the competency/theory test .a multi choice question test ,get this wrong and your not allowed too do the practical actual driving test .which is why i used it as a example ,if a angling test was a precurser to a licence ,fail the test no licence no chance to kill any fish .a test might not completely save all fish from being murded ,but it might make a angler think about what they're doing when handling fish and hopefully have a bit more sense of what dangers we all take for granted when we go fishing .