This won't sit well with some

[greg long]

Davy Holt:

Tis Orca.... Unfortuantely Newt I need to agree with Gobio the general consensus of Europeans is that America only joined in WW11 because of Pearl Harbour and that if that had not happened they would not have entered at all. Although Gobio in fairness I dont think Newt wanted to provide a reaction I think it may be Patriotism that was the thought behind his post. I believe that like religion views on War are a very delicate and personal subject depending on which country you are from, what your background every country has it faults were War is concerned. There is still a lot of people in Britain believe that Tony Blair should not have aligned himself with George Bush over Iran and Iraq that he only did so to have favour with America, a lot of time i believe people are allies to othe countries to see "what they can get out of it " in the end. A lot of wars are due to nations poking there nose into other folks business, I agree that most are justified but equally some are not.

In actual fact it was the sinking of the 'Lusitania' an american passenger liner off the coast of Ireland bya german u-boat that brought the americans into the war.

[chesters1]

wrong war it was sunk in 1915

a strange fact is that "britain" brought out a large commemorative medal to counter a german one even stranger our medal was written in german as well bar the word "may" (the month) was written instead of the german mai? otherwise it was a clone :confused:

i had one as a kid unfortunatly being the british version it had no value

 

[ 29. January 2005, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: chesters1 ]

[Newt]

Davy - I've read some speculation that the Pearl Harbor attack was anticipated - intelligence reports - and that the radar warnings that could have lessened the damage were ignored and that this whole thing was orchestrated by order of then President Franklin Roosevelt.

 

Isolationist feelings were so strong here at that time that it appeared doubtful the US would enter the war at all or if we did, would wait until too late to help bring about an Allied victory.

 

No way at this point to prove anything, one way or another, but the theory makes sense. Our ox was not being gored.

 

greg - Some Lusitania detail but basically chesters1 has the correct war.

 

Interesting to me that the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine 20 years earlier led directly to our war with Spain. It was thought at that time to have been a Spanish mine that caused the sinking although the most recent Naval inquiry into the incident has concluded the explosion was internal and probably started in the coal bunkers by something.

 

Do you think all of this indicates that we can be bad tempered at times?

[Snatcher]

Newt my philosophy on life is its nice to be nice. Wish I could just make a serum of it and inject everyone in the world - good plan or what Newt?

[Ian FG]

If anyone wants to read the very interesting conspiracy theory about the attack on Pearl Harbour, then this link is very interesting Pearl Harbour I am normally very sceptical about conspiracy theories but this article is very good.

 

[ 30. January 2005, 04:41 AM: Message edited by: Gobio ]

[chesters1]

and heres the medalion ,still of no value today ,i cannot see clearly if its the mai (german) or may (british version)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...&category=13965

but you notice the companion certificate is headed in english i am sure mine was made of iron :confused: no not the certificate

 

[ 30. January 2005, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: chesters1 ]

[Leon Roskilly]

Newt:

Davy - I've read some speculation that the Pearl Harbor attack was anticipated - intelligence reports - and that the radar warnings that could have lessened the damage were ignored and that this whole thing was orchestrated by order of then President Franklin Roosevelt.

 

Isolationist feelings were so strong here at that time that it appeared doubtful the US would enter the war at all or if we did, would wait until too late to help bring about an Allied victory.

 

No way at this point to prove anything, one way or another, but the theory makes sense. Our ox was not being gored.

 

greg - Some Lusitania detail but basically chesters1 has the correct war.

 

Interesting to me that the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine 20 years earlier led directly to our war with Spain. It was thought at that time to have been a Spanish mine that caused the sinking although the most recent Naval inquiry into the incident has concluded the explosion was internal and probably started in the coal bunkers by something.

 

Do you think all of this indicates that we can be bad tempered at times?

Then there was the 'Gulf of Tonkin Incident' that sucked you in Newt (and nearly me too!)

 

(eg http://www.fair.org/media-beat/940727.html )

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Ian FG]

Americans are a queer bunch sometimes. They rioted massively against conscription in 1863, the majority were isolationist in WW1(before the Lusitania) and WW2(before Pearl Harbour) I can understand why, but after WW2 they are up for invading countries big time. I have mixed feelings about Iraq.....if only the Sunni's would come on board everything would be great, sadly that is not happening and the future looks grim, not only for the decent Iraqi people but also for all those poor American families losing their sons in yet another intervensionist war.

Here is a very intersting article written by an American:

It's hard for me not to be cynical about Iraq these days. After all, I remember when Iraq was a gathering threat. I remember when Saddam harbored the kinds of terrorists who attacked us on 9/11. I remember when the next smoking gun could be a mushroom cloud. I remember when Iraq's oil revenue would pay for reconstruction. I remember when the idea that stabilizing Iraq would take hundreds of thousands of troops was ludicrous. I remember when Iraq could develop nuclear capabilities within a year. I remember when the mission was accomplished. I remember when killing Uday and Qusay Hussein would end the insurgency. I remember when capturing Saddam Hussein would end the insurgency. I remember when putting the interim government in power would end the insurgency. I remember every time attacking Fallujah would break the back of the insurgency.

 

Now we're told that the upcoming elections in Iraq are a sign that everything is on the right track, and that once Iraqis elect their own leaders things will get better. I'm doubtful, but I hope I'm wrong. Every day when I think about Iraq, I think about the people there who want a better future. Not insurgents, or terrorists, or people milking the occupation for power and profit, but regular people who want to live in a safe, prosperous, modern country. There have to be millions of them. That's the basic aspiration of most people in the world, and I'm sure it's the basic aspiration of most Iraqis. Where do they go from here? What can we do for them? I don't care if most of those people love or hate America at this point, I feel like they are the people to whom we are obliged. And as cynical as I feel about the lies, the mistakes, and the false reality in which President Bush and his advisors seem to live, I can't get those people out of my mind.

 

I think that for most people who have opposed President Bush and his agenda from the beginning, there's at least a side of them that wants to see him fail. To leave office in humiliation. Only there's a huge problem with that, because he's gambling with our future, and he's gambling with the future of those people in Iraq who never asked for what they're dealing with today. So much as I detest what he's done and how he's gone about it, I have to hope every day for President Bush to succeed, for our sake and for the sake of the everyday Iraqi. It's not a very fun place to be.

[corydoras]

Gobio:

 

It's not a very fun place to be.

---

That must be the understatement of the year to date.