Angling Times This Week

[Jeffwill]

See chris ponsford angling blog 9.5.09

 

http://www.chrisponsford.co.uk/blog.html

 

Seems to have strong opinions.

[Worms]

See chris ponsford angling blog 9.5.09

 

http://www.chrisponsford.co.uk/blog.html

 

Seems to have strong opinions.

I can't argue that he has strong opinions but it would be nice to see some new ones..........or if he's sticking with the old ones at least some evidence to back them up

 

Unfortunately it's the same old stories coming out again Jeff, eels the favourite food, the continued release of otters, fish stocks "decimated" (that bloody word again!) by otters.

 

At least in a few years the 'specialist' anglers will be back on their stocked pits and not slagging off natural waters. Once they stop queuing up to pull every big fish out of the water at least the fish will get a chance to recover and we mere mortals will be back to enjoying natural fishing with the occasional specimen. You never know, once the tons of 'bag 'em' boilies and other odd concoctions cease to be thrown into the rivers they might become even cleaner

 

The last two years has seen that stock decimated by Otters, to the extent that now only two big fish remain!

Must be making a killing guiding for the two fish left. I hope they get plenty of rest between sessions

 

The Big Barbel renaissance is pretty much done for, and most rivers are but a shadow of what they were fish stock wise. It’s not a great outlook, as many sections of rivers are virtually devoid of fish of any species.

 

If he means the big barbel catching renaissance I never realised it was over. It's just that all of a sudden barbel became the 'new carp'. I really suspect that intensive fishing has done more to harm barbel stocks than otters have, at least in the rivers I know.

 

Unfortunately, whilst some of these guys make a lot of money from catching barbel they are never going to admit to the possibility that they could be part of the problem..........

[yorkio]

See chris ponsford angling blog 9.5.09

 

http://www.chrisponsford.co.uk/blog.html

 

Seems to have strong opinions.

I wonder who these rogue otter breeders are, who he claims are "releasing them in silly numbers countrywide"?

[Anderoo]

This is not hysterical talk

 

 

Same old nonsense.

 

Peer reviewed scientific studies please.

[arbocop]

See chris ponsford angling blog 9.5.09

 

http://www.chrisponsford.co.uk/blog.html

 

Seems to have strong opinions.

 

I really don't swallow this 'otters eating everthing' story. I don't doubt that they eat a a lot of fish - good luck to them - but they are not the ravagers they are being made out to be.

 

Firstly, the barbel - or any other fish for that matter - could die out or disappear for other reasons, almost anything frankly. They may also migrate - how often does this happen following a big flood for instance? They could also even migrated downstream/upstream away from angling pressure or disturbance. Secondly, it's odd that the otters are accused of selecting the biggest barbel - a strong fish almost as big as itself. Why would it do this?

 

A quote from a wildlife trust website:

 

The European Otter is an opportunist both in terms of diet and habitat, and forages in coastal and freshwater environments. It has a high metabolic rate and needs to consume about 10% (750g-1kg) of its body weight (7-10kg) each day. To meet these energy demands, otters require a large territory in which to forage, typically a 16-20km stretch of river.

Assuming it was hungry, it could eat 2.2lbs in one go. Hardly going to want to tackle a huge 16lb barbel or 20lb carp then.

 

A quote from a wildlife trust website:

 

HISTORIC DISTRIBUTION: Common and widespread in the early 1950s, the otter declined dramatically from about 1957 onwards, due largely to pollution from farm pesticides and habitat loss. By the late 1970s, the otter was almost extinct in most of England, parts of Wales and areas of Scotland. In 1978, otter hunting, although not a major factor in the population crash, was outlawed. With the phasing out of chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides in the UK, the otter made a gradual return. (Pesticides enter the food chain, building up in species including eels, the otter’s favourite prey. Toxins accumulate in the otter’s tissue, poisoning it slowly when stored body fat is broken down, especially in wintertime). Throughout the 1980s, there were local improvements but population expansion has been hindered. The post war boom in intensive agriculture, land drainage and increased development have degraded habitat, leaving otter few secure places to feed, rest and breed.

 

I can't find any UK numbers but there are around 4000 otters in Wales and England - the Welsh population is far higher than the UK one. Assuming 3000 otters in Wales, which is 8000 square miles, this means there is 0.375 otters per square mile. Given the size of England the population is likely to be considerably less dense although there are admittedly localised populations e.g. Herefordshire, East Anglia etc..

 

 

Quotes from The Barbel Society:

 

Between 1937 and the 1990s, the barbel record was broken at least five times by salmon anglers who caught them on spinners or livebait, sometimes foul-hooked, but not always…..

 

The otter population crash occurred in the 1950's - assume that there was at least twice the number of today (say 8000), - , the few fisheries with barbel in them would have been wiped out - yet they weren't. This would indicate that there were big barbel whilst there were high populations of otters. These record catches indicate it. The Thames also used to have large numbers of both otters and barbel in the early 20th Century. Oh and the Scottish salmon and trout populations were also higher while there were more otters.

 

even without the eels, the impact of otters upon other species is significantly lower than it was pre 1950's.

 

Barbel Society Quotes

 

The barbel found in the River Severn, Bristol Avon and Welland, as well as their tributaries, originate from the Enborne, a tiny Kennet tributary, and were stocked as part of Operation Barbel by the Angling Times in the 1950s.

In 1896, and again during 1960's a few barbel were introduced to the Dorset Stour and the Hampshire Avon where they multiplied and thrived to produce a barbel mecca. In 1956 Angling Times introduced 509 barbel to the River Severn and we now have over one hundred miles of prime barbel fishing. A few barbel were also introduced to the River Wye, the Bristol Avon etc. and some northern rivers such as the Ribble, Dane and Weaver. They have thrived in all these rivers.

 

Looking at this from a historical viewpoint we are talking about the impact upon barbel (for instance) as a non-indigenous fish to most rivers. the otter was on these rivers when there weren't any barbel - we can hardly blame it if it makes a comeback and finds some fish that have been stocked!

 

EA Report

 

otter populations can survive and breed where fish biomass exceeds 10 g per m2. Where the fish biomass is below this figure throughout the year there is a possibility that they may not be able to do so. The UK Environment Agency targets for fish biomass (15 g per m2, for salmonid fisheries and 20 gper m2 for coarse fisheries) are well above the level considered to be required by otters, and where these targets are achieved, food supply is unlikely to prevent otters becoming established – although it will still determine carrying capacity

 

The well stocked healthy rivers will be fine as they are well above this. Densely stocked lakes will definitely be fine.

 

Other otter study facts:

 

Fish dominate the otters diet, but also a significant proportion of their diet consists of amphibians in the late winter and spring and crayfish in the summer.

In one study of Scottish otters - fish between 10 and 15cm form the majority (over 50%) of their diet - fish over 60cm were not recorded as featuring in their diet at all (calculated by measuring otoliths - ear bones).

Eels, and salmonids are preferred due to the high calorific content.

 

Overall I think this is issue is getting blown out of proportion by the Angling Press.

 

IMO - it is unfounded, bad for Angling and needs to stop.

Edited August 16, 2009 by arbocop

[Dick Dastardly]

Youve been busy Arbocop! Many thanks for posting all that information.

[Anderoo]

Yes, thanks for that arbocop. A very good point about the introductions of barbel, that hadn't occurred to me and puts the whole issue in an interesting context...

 

Even the monthlies are full of it now, I don't have any magazines left I want to read

[lutra]

I really don't swallow this 'otters eating everthing' story. I don't doubt that they eat a a lot of fish - good luck to them - but they are not the ravagers they are being made out to be.

 

Firstly, the barbel - or any other fish for that matter - could die out or disappear for other reasons, almost anything frankly. They may also migrate - how often does this happen following a big flood for instance? They could also even migrated downstream/upstream away from angling pressure or disturbance. Secondly, it's odd that the otters are accused of selecting the biggest barbel - a strong fish almost as big as itself. Why would it do this?

 

A quote from a wildlife trust website:

 

The European Otter is an opportunist both in terms of diet and habitat, and forages in coastal and freshwater environments. It has a high metabolic rate and needs to consume about 10% (750g-1kg) of its body weight (7-10kg) each day. To meet these energy demands, otters require a large territory in which to forage, typically a 16-20km stretch of river.

Assuming it was hungry, it could eat 2.2lbs in one go. Hardly going to want to tackle a huge 16lb barbel or 20lb carp then.

 

A quote from a wildlife trust website:

 

HISTORIC DISTRIBUTION: Common and widespread in the early 1950s, the otter declined dramatically from about 1957 onwards, due largely to pollution from farm pesticides and habitat loss. By the late 1970s, the otter was almost extinct in most of England, parts of Wales and areas of Scotland. In 1978, otter hunting, although not a major factor in the population crash, was outlawed. With the phasing out of chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides in the UK, the otter made a gradual return. (Pesticides enter the food chain, building up in species including eels, the otter’s favourite prey. Toxins accumulate in the otter’s tissue, poisoning it slowly when stored body fat is broken down, especially in wintertime). Throughout the 1980s, there were local improvements but population expansion has been hindered. The post war boom in intensive agriculture, land drainage and increased development have degraded habitat, leaving otter few secure places to feed, rest and breed.

 

I can't find any UK numbers but there are around 4000 otters in Wales and England - the Welsh population is far higher than the UK one. Assuming 3000 otters in Wales, which is 8000 square miles, this means there is 0.375 otters per square mile. Given the size of England the population is likely to be considerably less dense although there are admittedly localised populations e.g. Herefordshire, East Anglia etc..

 

 

Quotes from The Barbel Society:

 

Between 1937 and the 1990s, the barbel record was broken at least five times by salmon anglers who caught them on spinners or livebait, sometimes foul-hooked, but not always…..

 

The otter population crash occurred in the 1950's - assume that there was at least twice the number of today (say 8000), - , the few fisheries with barbel in them would have been wiped out - yet they weren't. This would indicate that there were big barbel whilst there were high populations of otters. These record catches indicate it. The Thames also used to have large numbers of both otters and barbel in the early 20th Century. Oh and the Scottish salmon and trout populations were also higher while there were more otters.

 

even without the eels, the impact of otters upon other species is significantly lower than it was pre 1950's.

 

Barbel Society Quotes

 

The barbel found in the River Severn, Bristol Avon and Welland, as well as their tributaries, originate from the Enborne, a tiny Kennet tributary, and were stocked as part of Operation Barbel by the Angling Times in the 1950s.

In 1896, and again during 1960's a few barbel were introduced to the Dorset Stour and the Hampshire Avon where they multiplied and thrived to produce a barbel mecca. In 1956 Angling Times introduced 509 barbel to the River Severn and we now have over one hundred miles of prime barbel fishing. A few barbel were also introduced to the River Wye, the Bristol Avon etc. and some northern rivers such as the Ribble, Dane and Weaver. They have thrived in all these rivers.

 

Looking at this from a historical viewpoint we are talking about the impact upon barbel (for instance) as a non-indigenous fish to most rivers. the otter was on these rivers when there weren't any barbel - we can hardly blame it if it makes a comeback and finds some fish that have been stocked!

 

EA Report

 

otter populations can survive and breed where fish biomass exceeds 10 g per m2. Where the fish biomass is below this figure throughout the year there is a possibility that they may not be able to do so. The UK Environment Agency targets for fish biomass (15 g per m2, for salmonid fisheries and 20 gper m2 for coarse fisheries) are well above the level considered to be required by otters, and where these targets are achieved, food supply is unlikely to prevent otters becoming established – although it will still determine carrying capacity

 

The well stocked healthy rivers will be fine as they are well above this. Densely stocked lakes will definitely be fine.

 

Other otter study facts:

 

Fish dominate the otters diet, but also a significant proportion of their diet consists of amphibians in the late winter and spring and crayfish in the summer.

In one study of Scottish otters - fish between 10 and 15cm form the majority (over 50%) of their diet - fish over 60cm were not recorded as featuring in their diet at all (calculated by measuring otoliths - ear bones).

Eels, and salmonids are preferred due to the high calorific content.

I'm not sure how much Hard fact can be taken from the diet of otters on Scottish rivers that have a much higher salmonids to coarse fish level than the English rivers talked about. After all as your post points out otters are "opportunist" and if there isnt salmonids to feed on........

 

 

Overall I think this is issue is getting blown out of proportion by the Angling Press.

 

IMO - it is unfounded, bad for Angling and needs to stop.

I still completely agree with your overall opinion though.

 

I don't think we've ever had rivers with the high levels of big coarse fish we have today living along side otters, so we are just going to have to see what happens.

 

Us anglers like to think of our selves as the guardians of fish in our rivers, but they belong to nature and we can like it or not but otters are part of that in my view and obsessive barbel anglers aren't.

Edited August 17, 2009 by lutra

[Anderoo]

I read somewhere recently that 'God made barbel for those who can't catch chub'

 

With all the barbel being decimated, we'll just have to concentrate on the quivertip just a little bit more...

[gozzer]

With all the barbel being decimated, we'll just have to concentrate on the quivertip just a little bit more...

 

There will soon be plenty of 'whip round' carp bites to make up for the 'missing barbel.

 

 

John.