Attitudes to drugs

[Sportsman]

Feeding off another thread, is it about time our society's attitude to the control of certain drugs was modified to reflect the realities of life in the UK. The objective of the thread is to engender discussion, not indulge in name calling and unfounded accusations BTW

 

Let me state my position first. I think that as a society, our attitude should not be one of blame or persecution, it should be based on limiting harm, to the individual and to our society.

As i see it a great deal of the harm caused by drugs stems from the fact that they are illegal and only available from dubious sources, are of dubious quality and are administered in dangerous ways.

 

There is a commonly held belief that smoking dope will lead to experimentation and use of harder drugs. This may happen in some cases (probably the same proportion of beer drinkers who go on to become alcoholic)

The problem seems to be that because dope is illegal, to obtain it you have to go to a dealer. This dealer will most probably be interested in selling you other high profit items and will encourage the experimentation, so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

If the dope were available from other, better controlled sources this link to other drugs could be avoided.

The fact is that dope is widely used, whether we agree with it or not and even though it is illegal, so making changes to the supply is unlikely to change overall usage. It would also mean that the millions of pounds currently spent on criminalising users could be spent more usefully.

 

One of the major problems with illegal drugs is that they are such an unknown quantity. It is impossible in most cases to know what is in the supplied drug, and in what quantity. Ironically most users of street corner drugs such as Heroin get very little of the drug in their street corner deals. It will have been cut with a bulk filler which might range from sugar or milk powder to drain cleaner. The effect of injecting this is fairly unpredictable at best. The other effect is that the user is not used to injecting much heroin and his tolerance to the drug is not high. If he were to obtain some good quality product the odds are very high that he would inject what he believes would be his normal dose, and end up overdosing, with potentially fatal effects.

 

The risks to health also include Blood Borne Viruses such as HIV and Hepatitis. It is only recently that attempts have been made to reduce the risk with the supply of sterile syringes and needles. As a nurse i was taught to destroy syringes and needles after use "so that the addicts couldn't get hold of them" The harder we make it the more likelihood there is of disease.

 

Crime is a major side effect of drug use, as users steal to pay for their habit. If a controlled supply of drugs were made available under controlled conditions this stealing would be unnecessary. In areas where trial of controlled supply have been undertaken there has been a massive drop in crime.

 

The fact is that we have prohibited the use of drugs for years, and there are now more drugs on our streets than ever before so what we are doing is obviously not working. Shouldn't we be looking at other options?

[RobStubbs]

This, and to be honest the previous, governments attitudes appear to be to ban anything that could be harmful, dangerous or upset peoples sensibilities or even win them votes.

 

What to do about them ? - change the government to one that doesn't behave like that. Unfortunately there is no such party waiting in the wings.

 

Rob.

[billy50000]

One of the major problems with illegal drugs is that they are such an unknown quantity. It is impossible in most cases to know what is in the supplied drug, and in what quantity. Ironically most users of street corner drugs such as Heroin get very little of the drug in their street corner deals. It will have been cut with a bulk filler which might range from sugar or milk powder to drain cleaner. The effect of injecting this is fairly unpredictable at best. The other effect is that the user is not used to injecting much heroin and his tolerance to the drug is not high. If he were to obtain some good quality product the odds are very high that he would inject what he believes would be his normal dose, and end up overdosing, with potentially fatal effects.

 

 

This is a major problem and it is part reason for hospital visits bar overdosing on what you may believe is your normal dose.

I`ve taken all sorts in my youth and not just one at a time!many differant types and more than one of each when i went clubbing!(in my youth)

 

i know of many people that could not handle even one! (say pill)not to mention 2+ which is common place when out and about clubbing..

 

despite what is thought,many deaths or overdoses dont happen in the clubs but are caused by a dodgy dealer in some dodgy shite hole, or in your own pad!

 

proper control in proper levels could!!i say could!! help but there are many other areas to iron out, which at first would cost a fair bit to implement but a hell of allot less than trying to control its banning and punishments..

 

one example would be having stoned people at work!!wouldnt work thus they get fired!

 

a deterrent testing system would avoid this but considering pot stays in your system and hair for 13 weeks could become a problem so it would have to account for the microgram amount in your blood(test 1)week 1 (test 2)week 2 and if the gram dropped then your clear or something like that.

 

eitherway its better than paying millions out of the purse to ban it when they could control it and reverse the spend and tax it like they do with everything else..

Edited November 4, 2009 by billy50000

[snakey1]

They can't even keep drugs out prisons (somewhere thats meant to be a secure and highly controlled environment) so what chance is there of keeping drugs off the streets (most of the so called High ranking "Drug Tzars" put forward by the govenment and the police couldn't get their fat rses off there seats long enough to even see the streets let alone remove the drugs from them.)

Banning them hasn't worked as it hasn't worked in other areas (such as firearms crime) so yep I think its time for a total rethink on the current situation and for the govenment to stop listening to the tabloid press (mail, sun, mirror etc)and using these things for their own political agenders & to start listening to what experts (the ones they employ and then sack or ignore when they don't say what they wont to hear) on these subjects say and for once to take heed of it.

[kleinboet]

Ok then, let,s make ALL drugs legal - as long as you have a doctors prescription!

Then it is down to the medical fraternity and NICE to make the conditions. If somebody dies from an O/D then it is down to the doctors, I can think of thousands of MS sufferers who would benefit, pain relief-wise!

Talk to the MD's that work at A&E as ALL drugs means ALL drugs which will include all tobacco products, most alcoholic beverages and definitely all pain killers!

It will put us back in the dark ages, sure, but it would stop D**kheads misusing poisons! (or didn't you know that ALL drugs are poisons to a degree, just some more than others).

I for one would love to see the church yards without the oblgatory P**shead in it, stoned out of their minds (not always with alcohol) and wearing filthy rags as, if you try and help him financially, they will just go and more of whatever is blowing their minds!

Just think no aspirins, or any other pain relief unless you have a doctors prescription!!

NO - lets leave things as they are and rely on Joe public to be sensible!

[Chris Goddard]

But that is what it is ALL about surely?

 

"NO - lets leave things as they are and rely on Joe public to be sensible! " Joe is NOT sensible. Were he "Sensible" then this problem would not occur?

 

I am a drug addict myself!! But my drugs ARE prescribed (Morphine) and I have NO intention of ever altering that stance myself. But then again I do describe myself as sensible (STOP SNIGGERING Mr Murphy please!)

 

To me though quite seriously, as with anyone who misuses anything, is to TRY and help them. If they don't WANT help (And lots do!) Then simply lock them up with like minded people and forget them!

[snakey1]

Actually it wouldn't stop people abusing drugs (poisons then just for you KB) as if they couldn't get them off their doctor they would obtain them illegally as they do now(by the way in your list of Drugs/Poisons do you include oxygen, as thats sold at oxygen bars for recreational use due to its effects and can also be poisonous at certain levels and pressures so would fit under your definition of drug, so don't forget to get your repeat prescription for breathing(i can see the doctors being really busy) or chairman KB will have you arrested for misusing unprescribed O2, oh and don't forget your tea and coffee as cafeine is a drug as well. note to self must get my prescription ready for my early morning cupper).

As you can see that idea is stupid however the laws as the currently stand have done nothing to reduce drug use and just criminalise an awful lot of people for no good reason.

Edited November 4, 2009 by snakey1

[Steve Walker]

I tend towards the belief that a person's body is his own, to do with as he wishes, and that it's none of the government's damned business what a consenting adult puts in it. I would legalise and license the drug trade with age restricted sales and limits on the amount that can be bought at one time, and would ensure that consumers were properly informed of the risks and that suppliers were liable for the safety and quality of their product.

 

Although I have no philosophical problem with people using whatever they like, I do have an issue with the supply of highly addictive drugs from a consumer protection point of view, in the sense that it enables merchants to gain a very large and unfair advantage over consumers - I think I would compromise and say that you could not sell those drugs to people who didn't have a medical certificate indicating that they were already an addict.

 

If heroin addicts could be legally sold medical grade heroin at the legitimate market price, the black market in heroin would immediately cease, as would the acquisitive crime and morbidity associated with street heroin. Who is going to go to the trouble to illegally create addicts when there is no money in it?

[kleinboet]

To answer Snakies snide remarks - Oxygen is freely available WHEREVER you are and therefore NOT classified as a drug. Marijuana, Heroin and others of that ilk are! If you APPROVE of these so called "harmless" drugs (in which I include Alcohol), I dare you to go and stand outside the ambulance entrance of the A&E department over a weekend!!

I had a friend who died of alcohol poisoning and I had another that was reduced to a cabbage in intellect and looking after himself after taking meth-amphetamine! Look at the amount of stabbings where the culprit has pleaded leniency because he "was under the influence of drugs" at the time!

Most of them stated afterwards that they were all smoking pot when an argument happened and the person was stabbed.

We've all tried it - some stayed and some didn't - that's the argument!

[GlennB]

I tend towards the belief that a person's body is his own, to do with as he wishes, and that it's none of the government's damned business what a consenting adult puts in it. I would legalise and license the drug trade with age restricted sales and limits on the amount that can be bought at one time, and would ensure that consumers were properly informed of the risks and that suppliers were liable for the safety and quality of their product.

 

Although I have no philosophical problem with people using whatever they like, I do have an issue with the supply of highly addictive drugs from a consumer protection point of view, in the sense that it enables merchants to gain a very large and unfair advantage over consumers - I think I would compromise and say that you could not sell those drugs to people who didn't have a medical certificate indicating that they were already an addict.

 

If heroin addicts could be legally sold medical grade heroin at the legitimate market price, the black market in heroin would immediately cease, as would the acquisitive crime and morbidity associated with street heroin. Who is going to go to the trouble to illegally create addicts when there is no money in it?

 

Bingo. Together with Sportsman's o/p this sums it all up.

Will we ever see a government with the guts to implement it?