Would you transport livebaits?

[HOPPY4]

OK, as someone who personnaly knows Budgie to be a Fishing Guide and one Hell of a Great person, I think that the use of live bait is acceptable. If you are allowed to fish with live bait, your chances are improved immencely. This is not to say that you will not catch fish with dead bait or lures, but you have a better chance. On the subject of transport, we have done so in the USA as long as I have know what fishing was. While I am here in Germany, this is a forbidden practice and carries a stiff fine. Killing the bait just before it is placed into the water is the requirement. As a fishierman of many years and a learned European fisherman, I consider Budgie a Fair Minded angler and to do anything to endanger the sport would be furthest thing form his mind.

[AndyM]

Re. dead baits and parasites, this is very remote due to the fact that a) most parasites etc. are waterborn so die if taken out of water for a period of time, and most require a live host, and die off 24-48hrs later if they can't find one. Sea baits are also safe, or I'm unaware of anything which which could be a problem, which can survive in both freshwater and sea water for any length of time without drowning or dieing of thirst depending on which way you go (the changes in salt levels make it hard for the parasites to regulate their water levels properly). Viruses and other diesease are a different matter.

 

This info is based purely on my knowledge and experience of keeping and breeding of tropical fish, plus attendance of lectures on aquatic parasites/disease and cures etc. as part of my duties as a member of management for the federation of northern aquarium societies. Wheither it's different in large fisheries compared to enclosed glass containers I cannot comment, but quanteen of new fish is an important aspect of the fish keeping hobby, as introduction of "nasties" is a real posiblity. I've lost fish, and some expensive ones at that due to introducing fish without quanteening properly when spare tanks have been short, I take this loss and cost, but personally I would never use live fish from one water to use as livebait in another, when the effects could harm someone elses livelyhood such as fishery managers etc., plus the enjoyment of sport for others, never mind the health of the fish themselves.

 

The argument that the EA have no reported cases of livebait introducing diesease or parasites seems to me to be alittle mute. Ok I've only been fishing properly again for say 6mths after a +10year absences, and haven't a clue or experence as to what work the EA actually do, but over the past half year reading forums like this one, plus letters in the weeklys, the general consensus amongst anglers seem to be they don't do a very good job, or atleast not worth the funding they receive. Personally, I haven't the knowledge of their work to have a proper opinion, but do they really know what parasites etc. have or haven't been introduced into each and every water within the UK and how???

 

[ 12. November 2003, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: AndyM ]

[markward]

Budgie I am still here but due to the incompetance of my users have been saving my application from meltdown.

 

I to am glad this thread finally got off the ground and brought about balanced debate of a part of the sport that l do partake in (contary to belief maybe?) I will defend any anglers right to livebait and am not ashamed (as some might be) when taking part in the practice of admitting to be livebaiting or having a net full of 'freshly caught' baits on display and if these baits are not consumed during the session they will take pride of place in my freezer for when the going gets tough (guilty of theft?)

 

The general theme has seemed to be although it is accepted as a no no but there has been no proof of transferred fish causing the disease so what is the problem? I bet the farmers thought that about their livestock too until they got hit my foot and mouth and now are far highly regulated because of this lax attitude. My joint of organic beef at the weekend grew up in Devon, got slaughtered just down the road and was sold to me with all this information on the pack. Do you see bait suppliers going too the effort of chipping lives with info like grew up in tank x, on fish farm y and lived with 10 other species all clean at the time?

You could turn that around against me and say that you drink and smoke (two things that you know to do harm) but you still carry on regardless. Maybe l care more about the environment than myself!!!

I wasn't trying to bring any fiction into this thread just fact and the way l see it. If you transport lives you are breaking the law punishable by a fine upto £2500. If you do do it ,whether there is proof or not of the spread or potential spread of disease, l hope you get caught.

I have also spoken to a person at my local EA and have said they would in no way supply fish in the knowledge that they were to be transported and used as lives. Maybe a slightly lax attitude in your region helps you get away with it but it is not the general consensus and by being able to do this should in no way act as justification that it is acceptable.

 

Like l said l eventually got there and this has been well debated with no slur or slander intended to any party just clarification and attempted justifications expressed. This wouldn't have been achieved on P&P!!

[Steve Randles]

I am glad that things here have righted themselves in respect of how it was initally worded, and that things have been discussed as I am used to seeing here. I would just like to point out that I would request that a thread be closed like the initial ones where, whoever's name was on it, period.

 

One thing I should like to hear views on and I have not seen mentioned is this. Its accepted that to use livebaits that you catch them from the water your fishing, fair enough thats the law. But some have mentioned they would then take the remaining catch home to be used as deadbaits on future sessions.

 

My question is: How many anglers actually know or are aware of any rules regarding minimum size of fish to be allowed to legally remove them from the water, and I wonder if this is kind of hand in hand with the sizes of livebaits used at that time, is there a minimum size?

 

I used to know what the minimum sizes where ( for fish removal), but I have long since forgotton as I dont personaly do it, but surely these restrictions still exist?

 

And BTW...I'm definately not pointing any fingers here!

[Peter Waller]

Steve, there are rules. Rather a strange situation in that I can take two of a species over a certain size for food or whatever. The rule for taking a fish to use as a bait are rather different. Can't remember the total, 20 springs to mind but I could be totally wrong. And we complain about cormorants!! Whether I take a fish for food or for bait the end result is the same, dead fish. Who is to say that the fish that I kill are for food or for bait?

[Steve Randles]

Actually, as this thread is long enough already I think I'll start a new one so if you have any comments regarding my question please post it on.. "Sizes Of Baits"

[Dick Dastardly]

Glad youre still with us Mark.People may have not been able to see it but realy most of us (other than the out and out anti live baiters)have a lot in common and our concerns are the same.There are many angling practices that are banned even though there is no hard evidence to support the ban.When we do not have acsess to facts we must take these bans on trust,after all when you are not privvy to information it would be daft to take the risk.

 

When a carp angler uses boillies on a water they are banned on (because they make all the other fish impossible to catch and poison the water)or the roach angler uses hemp on a water where it is banned (because it drugs the fish and makes the bites impossible to hit) They are both as guilty of breaking the rules as I am when I use transported fish as bait(because they spread disease and cause a major unbalance of the eco system)

 

Do you see what Im getting at? I would never try to justify risking damaging the enviroment I just honestly beleive that the risk is so infantesimally small that it is irelevant.I also beleive the authorities do as well,hence why they dont go out of their way to catch,prosecute people at this level.

 

As I have said before I would much rather see the law changed/clarified than break it.Better for all to stick to sensible guide lines and practices.

 

Hoppy mentions the law in Germany.Once again this is not down to worries about trans location and spread of disease purely the strong Green party thinking that angling is cruel.NB.as he said you are allowed to buy a bait take it where you want but must kill it before you put it on the hook.

 

There is far more predator fishing on the continent than in this country and transporting of lives is the norm.Why has the major eco disaster we are all waiting for here never happened there? :confused:

 

For those who disagree with my practices then fine I dont expect you to change your minds on my say so,but surely after reading all of these posts over several threads and multiple sites on this subject you can see why I question what is right and why so many of us are confussed. :confused:

 

I feel that live bait users are unfortunately caught up in the tail end of the situation brought about by the quite correct need to control and monitor the movements of fish species ie artificial stocking of non indigenous species and the spread of disease through illegal and uncontrolled importation of foriegn fish.Namely Carp and Catfish.

 

One last point (for the moment any way!) ask around your own respective areas.Very few authorities and fisheries owners have a problem with farmed trout being purchased,transported and used as live baits.Even though strictly by the letter of the law this is still illegal!

 

[ 12. November 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: BUDGIE ]

[tony jolley]

Most waters I have fished in my area have the ruleing that ALL fish dead or alive must be returned to the water. So I would be breaking the rules to take any home dead or alive.

 

On the subject of parasites, The parasite Anguillacoli crassus can survive outside of its hosts body, until it finds a new host.

this is restricted to eels (or so we think.

 

On that point shouldn`t we stop useing eels as bait dead or alive as the parasite can survive on after the death of the eel. and continue to spread.

As the parasite begins its life cycle in the saline water of the estuarys were the eel takes it on board in the juvenial stage of the eel (elver) and then after death the parasite survives in fresh water, so that is one that can cross the saline to fresh water and back again lines.

 

[ 12. November 2003, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: tony jolley ]

[tony jolley]

I know this is besides the point of the original question,

But, Does anyone know how long fish that are saved by the E,A in a rescue are quarantined for before they are released into an other water?.

and surely it can`t be safe to think that because a percentage of fish are "clean" that all of them are.

[chesters1]

i have my doubts on all sources of fish ,over last winter we had about 10,000 put in one lake ,one batch of crucians contained some very suspect ones ,the EA chap watching wasnt concerned but i asked the supplier about them and he said the young often looked like that (they were very small ,large crucians are as expensive as gold ) anyway we spotted several small shoals of them now and again containing the strange ones after a few weeks they had turned red and cleverly kept in the center of the shoal these were goldfish so if a batch of fish can contain different fish whos to say they are not carrying disease and thats far harder to spot

surely if you pay abovr the odds for clean fish how come some of the fish are alien ,you cant ask the chap to take them back once there in the pond

the supplier gets his fish from either his lakes or buys them from others ,i`ve even spotted him on telly netting one of the lakes at chatsworth ,royal fish cost extra

 

[ 12. November 2003, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: chesters1 ]