Mixing groundbait

[The Flying Tench]

I normally use Sensas 'Roach and silver fish'. I mix it by the bank and don't have too much trouble. At one time I used to put too much water in, and it stuck together too much, but since i learned to keep it fairly dry it has worked OK and I can see it breaking up into a cloud when it hits the water - which is normally what I want.

 

I had a feeling, though, that I was feeding the fish too much, and got some fine white breadcrumb, which I have used the last couple of trips. Terrible stuff! It sticks together like glue, and I can't seem to avoid getting little acorn sized nuggets which don't break down as I would hope.

 

Any advice?

 

Thanks

[Roobz]

Use a Riddle?

[Phone]

Tench,

 

Bread is a binder. Not sure what "Sensas 'Roach and silver fish'" is but adding bread to any dry mix will tend to "bind" it together. If you insist on bread as a filler (and I don't recommend bread as a filler) then you are still WAY to wet. When using a binder as a filller make your mix so that at the end of 30 minutes fluffing it holds together after 5 (five) hard squeezes in the palm on your hand - squeezing as hard as you can using the thumb of the other hand to press. If it breaks on cast add 3 drops of water. If it doesn't break on impact it's probably still to wet. You can make glass marbles with bread. Very hard to work with.

 

In general bread is not a filler. It is a food source. May I suggest something like "hen scratch" or "layers mash"? Much more neutral.

 

Again, in general terms when talking in two dimensions there are "binders" and "breakers". US paylakers (sort of like matchmen for carp) have these terms down pat. Have a look on the net.

 

Phone

[RUDD]

White breadcrumb fills fish up very quickly.

Try a very fine groundbait such as matchblend, supermatch or superblack.

 

Why do you think the groundbait is filling the fish up?

 

I suspect you are catching on the bottom but as the groundbait is an active one (particles go up and down the water column) the fish are also altering feeding depth.

I would try altering rigs/depth to keep in contact with the fish.

[Anderoo]

Pure white, fine breadcrumb is notoriously difficult to mix. The best I can advise is to cut it with something else that's more coarse, or mix small amounts very carefully with a lot less water than you think you'll need. Get it right, and it's great stuff, especially when you want a really fine cloud up in the water.

[Rusty]

I had a feeling, though, that I was feeding the fish too much, and got some fine white breadcrumb, which I have used the last couple of trips. Terrible stuff! It sticks together like glue, and I can't seem to avoid getting little acorn sized nuggets which don't break down as I would hope.

 

John, have you tried liquidised bread?

 

Provided you use a fresh loaf it needs no additional liquid to bind together when compressed. It tends to get washed away too easily in a current but on a stillwater venue it’s superb stuff, squeeze harder and it’ll take longer to break down but it always does break down. Dead cheap to make too.

[gozzer]

As it's been said, if you think you are over feeding them, I wouldn't add white bread crumb, it will just make it worse. I always use fine brown crumb as a base, if I want a cloud effect.

 

How are you mixing it John? I always add the water to the mix, not the other way round. Add the water gradually, and mix thoroughly before adding any more. I carry a small maggot riddle and push it through that before using. If more water is needed during a session, I add it with a spray bottle, one squirt at a time.

 

John.

[The Flying Tench]

White breadcrumb fills fish up very quickly.

Try a very fine groundbait such as matchblend, supermatch or superblack.

 

Why do you think the groundbait is filling the fish up?

 

I suspect you are catching on the bottom but as the groundbait is an active one (particles go up and down the water column) the fish are also altering feeding depth.

I would try altering rigs/depth to keep in contact with the fish.

 

Thanks various people for your advice. Rusty, i don't often do liquidized bread cos we're a gluten-free household apart from me, and it's kind've against the culture!

 

Rudd, I'll certainly try a fine groundbait such as you suggest. But I'm interested in your comment about changing the depth. I do try this, though not too expertly I fear. But on reflection I'm puzzled that matchmen use active groundbaits that send particles up and down the water column. Doesn't it just create a problem? Isn't it easier to keep them on the bottom? Admittedly i am wanting a cloud, but I suppose I'd assumed that will gradually sink downwards. I suppose not all the branded groundbaits are active?

 

Also, re your query about why I think I'm filling them up with my Sensas roach groundbait. It's because I regularly get them feeding for about half an hour and then I lose them. If I was giving them too little, although I'd lose them for a bit they'd presumably come back again - like they did the first time. Out of interest how much of a bag of groundbait would you expect to use for a 2-3 hour session at this time of year on a canal after roach?

 

thanks

[Phone]

Tench,

 

Ahh-Ha! the target is roach? Roach are members of the carp and minnow family (Cyprinidae). In addition, you mention you would rather not disrupt the cultrue of a gluten-free household.

 

A couple suggestions, but first, technically all grains have some form of gluten. Any particular gluten you stay clear of (just wheat, barley, rye?)?

 

CORN, rice, millet are all good but are food sources that affect/effect the commercial product. A couple enhancers, (I believe to be better than bread) without commenting on their "breaking or binding" characteristics(sp) are hemp, tiger nuts, peanuts, etc.

 

As for a "filler" we had a pretty good thread not long ago on the value of dirt from a mole hill. Clouds and suspends too!

 

Milk solids and palm oil are good clouding agents (also food sources). All yeast, especially brewers yeast suspends nicely in water. Of course, all carpers know the value of chalk as a neutral non-food filler. Chalk provides the ultimate suspension.

 

Just rambling,

 

Phone

[medwaygreen]

There are two types of feeding discussed here, they are in my opinion attractants and ground bait feed, should you only wish to attract the fish into the swim then light cloudy non nutrient feed hand feed and dispersing from the surface is just fine, should you wish to lay a feed for the fish to attract and keep in the swim then a more substantial ingredient will be required.

 

First if you use liquidised white bread a real filler, do not use water the moister in the bread alone will be enough to bind for what is required, also I have found the cheapest supermarket brand to be the best I use Tesco, about 40p per loaf. should you wish to lay some feed on the bottom then use two buckets one for cloud and one for the bed layer.

 

I on the River always use the finest cloud type I can make for upstream distribution and then use the heavier feed and I mean heavy at least 15 minutes to disperse from a cage feeder or equivalent, allowing the flow to distribute on to the bait.

 

In still water for me it is a bit of a reverse in goes the carpet feed and then whether float or Leger fishing, the feeder or hand feed ground bait is just cloudy and light as needed. Top up your carpet layer as you feel the catch is or maybe dropping off.

 

I feel liquidised white bread is the best for carpet feed, if the water has no colour or white may disrupt the environment then I do use brown or a mixture of both, I do add Ground rice sometimes and if fishing for Bream and sugar fix can be good, also for the cloud feed I have found milk powder to work.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Edited November 30, 2011 by medwaygreen