Rods...Have they improved?

[Rusty]

Can rods get much better do you think? Seems to me that if you want a rod which does something better than your current one it's available and you just go and buy it.

 

Other than cheaper I'm not sure where rods go from here. Lighter perhaps?

[Dick Dastardly]

Maybe the cheap rods have gone cheaper ( or is it that there's just a lot more cheap stuff on the market) but the better quality rods are still as expensive as ever.

 

Yes and No Ian! (IMO anyway) Real top of the range rods are indeed still very expensive but please let me use carp/specialist rods as an example to show what I mean.

 

In the 80's/early 90's the average price for the blank alone (from a "good quality" manufacturer) such as Tricast was over £100.These days I can buy a rod of equal quality and specification "ready rolled" for half of that. Yes the £30 rods (such as JRC) are not the same quality (quite) and the actual specs are a lot different,BUT they are perfectly usable and far far closer to the upper end rods than the equivelant cheap rods were to top end rods of yesteryear.

 

I think three things have caused this to come about (in the carp/specialist market that we are talking about but also to an extent the first two in all rods)-

 

1) As everyone knows the cheaper manufacturing costs in the Far East combined with their now far higher (than previously) build quality.

 

2) The fact that design has vastly improved across the board to such an extent that for any "practical advance" no further costly design/research needs to be done.

 

3) With carp rods especially the trend of using increased test curves has to a lot negated the use of complicated taper rods,The far more costly (to design and produce) multi taper mandrels of the "old days" now being replaced by cheaper standard/"simple" taper ( I can't remember the correct term) and the actual wrapping process being used to change the "action" of the finished blank.

 

A true "top end" rod (and I'm not talking about a cheap rod like Greys for example that is simply priced higher than its true value) requires simply a lot more time to produce (a lot of the "old" technology still being used) so will allways command a higher price.

 

So in general I say most rods are not only far better but also a lot cheaper than 20-30 years or so back but some extreme end rods will be the same simply because they are indeed the same! Made like they were back then.

 

Only time this really becomes an issue and you need to revert to old top end gear at top end prices are when your requirements are specific.Best example I can think of now that many on here will be familiar with is when looking for a long range bream/big tench rod.An 80's FAST TAPER 1 3/4lb carp rod that cost £100+ for the blank will cast a dam site further than a modern cheap standard taper 1 3/4lb Brench/Barbel rod that costs £30,But conversely a 80's 2lb compound taper carp rod for "average" carp fishing that cost the same £100+ for blank alone is no different to a modern equivalent be it costing the same or £30!

 

Another reason that Ive just thought of is that because rods have very much peaked in actual design,manufacturers now just routinely bring out "new" models at regular periods rather than just when any design break through occurred. These "new" rods are often only "new" due to a different name or cosmetics! However modern "label" tart culture deems in necessary ti have the latest model.This leaves retail outlets with lots of "last years product" on a regular basis and so these are heavily discounted.

 

An example again-

 

JRC Skyliner 3 1/4lb Carp rod brand new on release over £50 depending on retailer,after a year around £30 and last few in stock £19.99! Don't believe me do a bit of research!

[Tigger]

Just as an example all my older drennan rods are kitted out with stamped fuji sic's and have a great finnish. If you put one of the later equivalent rods from drennan next to it you'll see the difference instantly. Same goes for all my other rods also.

[Emma two]

Perhaps it depends upon what you want or expect out of a rod? On my library wall is a 1970s Bruce and Walker 'Loch Lomond compound taper' pike rod, it was the 'bees knees at the time and was presented to me as a gift, I have it set up with a reel of the era an ABU Cardinal 44, it is set up with a plastic bung, a drilled bullet, snap tackle and 15lb mono, it could be taken down and used all in working order, buty they are relics, I would no morw use it than I would the clothes prop.

 

 

Around 1968 I bought an ABU 'Laplandia' sea trout (fly) rod, I though it state of the art (althpough we propably didn't use that term back then), it had an externsion in the but for extra leverage when playing a big fish, I also had a split cane 3 piece trout fly rod on the 60s. I caught fish on those rods and enjoyed using them at the time but I wouldn't use them now, rods have improved out of all recognition.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Emma two

[carp-catcha]

I'll have a go at this one too I think...

 

The other day I was doing the gardening and took my brand new, 'advanced lightweight' shears to a small yet stubborn garden tree. A few solid slashes later the metal started to twist slightly and the gearing mechanism started to crumple, in other words they went s**t and became barely useable!

 

Naturally peeved off (and never one not to finish a job) I headed back to the garden shed and right at the back beneath a pile of cobwebs pulled out a wooden pair of shears that looked like dated back to the 1950's! 20 minutes later they'd aced the job really showing the modern ones how its done!

 

Basically the emphasis on modern rods seems to be towards creating lighter, thinner blanks, which is good but sometimes a thicker heavier rod gives me more confidence , and I doubt many of the new rods will be making their way back out of tackle shed in thirty years time!

[PeterNE1]

If you want to see the most obvious 'improvements' available in modern rods, I think you have to look at stuff away from the routine 'everyday' rods that sell in their thousands ... consider the power and strength now available in an ultra light lure rod, for example, or a modern 3 or 4 weight fly rod ... or the massive distance casting capacity of the top-end sea rods now available ... maybe we just have access now to technology that offers improvements at the extremes of performance, with the main benefits of lower price / better quality in the range of say the £40 - £90 price bracket?

[Phone]

Hawk,

 

May I also add - rods had to get better. The fish today are so much smarted that when we were young.

 

Phone

[Dick Dastardly]

If you want to see the most obvious 'improvements' available in modern rods, I think you have to look at stuff away from the routine 'everyday' rods that sell in their thousands ... consider the power and strength now available in an ultra light lure rod, for example, or a modern 3 or 4 weight fly rod ... or the massive distance casting capacity of the top-end sea rods now available ... maybe we just have access now to technology that offers improvements at the extremes of performance, with the main benefits of lower price / better quality in the range of say the £40 - £90 price bracket?

 

Do you honestly think a present day "top of the range" Zziplex casts that much better than a Dream Machine GSI,Bullet,Quattra of the early 90's? Yes a modern Sage or Orvis is a bit thinner and lighter than one from the period Im talking about but once again does it actually make it that much better?

 

I certainly wouldn't want to go back to my old ABU All England Match rod (top drawer in the 70's) as it was noticeably heavier,I wouldn't want to go back to a Hardy Richard Walker Stillwater fly rod (again top rod in its day) for the same reason but I just dont see that since the late 80's/early 90's there has been any major breakthroughs just subtle improvements on the same thing.

 

BUT I do agree the areas where things have "improved" (if at all) are as you say but this I believe is only through "refinement".

 

I still maintain that anglers are better off these days as the price of effective,well designed,usable tackle (and its associated technology) is within the budget of all.

[chesters1]

Maybe the cheap rods have gone cheaper ( or is it that there's just a lot more cheap stuff on the market) but the better quality rods are still as expensive as ever.

 

it depends if your mind can distinguish high price from quality ,just because it costs an arm and leg only means theres silly people out there easily parted from their money

if you refused to buy it the price would drop like a stone,i for one think carbon rods are a step back ,i have found more carbon rods in bits hidden in the bushes in 10 years than in 40 of fiberglass ,the cheapness of carbon is a marketing ploy rather than a boon for the buyer ,you cannot easily fix it so just buy another bit of tat to replace it

i have a modern ultra thin one piece shimano spinning rod but my glass 1970's abu 2 part easily outcasts it even using the same reel ,line and plug! strange that.

there was a great leap from cane to hollow glass (the intervening solid glass definitely not bar they needed less maintenance) but little from glass to carbon unless the countries now full of weaklings

expensive things are expensive because silly people pay expensive prices for them

Edited February 5, 2012 by chesters1

[Phone]

Hawk,

 

As the question was ask (maybe asked?) - have they "improved".

 

The answer is YES.

 

Have they gotten "better" as in of superior quality or excellence only then is there a discussion. As for "fishability" I firmly believe function follows form. As with BUDGIE'S posts it is difficult to adjust for inflation or specialty when he tosses about £ numbers.

 

To "improve" is to make [the object] into a more desirable or excellent piece of kit. What do you want? Some desire the challange of the "old way" and will pay extra to fish the old way (whatever that means). Look at Elton's cars, he could probably own a Rolls Royce for the money he dumps into those heaps.

 

Are reels "better" - YES (ALL of them!)

Are hooks "better" - YES

Is line "better" - YES

 

Is a centerpin even a reel? Ummm - - - I'm not going there.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Phone