The big river roach of the past

[Steve Burke]

Sorry, Mark, Nigel and I are no longer in touch.

 

I'm fairly certain that the original was in colour. It's just remotely possible I have a copy. However we've moved umpteen times in the last few years. We're settled now but haven't finished unpacking as work is still continuing on our cottage. I'll look out for it though when we do eventually unpack.

 

As for roach/chub hybrids I seem to recall that my old mate Stewart Allum had one from lower down the Beult at Yalding. This would have been prior to Nigel's catch. Stewart's probably still in the Chub Study Group so you may already have details of this fish.

 

Other than Stewart's and Nigel's I've never seen another roach/chub hybrid.

 

Edit Note: I'm pretty certain that the pic of the 3-14 appeared in both Angling Times and Angler's Mail. It would have been in the early 80s.

 

I'll also ask Peter Rogers if he has a copy of the photo, but I doubt it.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Steve Burke

[gozzer]

Over the years I've heard of roachxchub hybrids, but was never sure it was possible. When I saw it on here I did a little googling and came up with this blog.

 

It certainly looks like a bit of both, but I'm still not convinced. What do you think Steve, Mark?

 

 

http://manchesterfishingfiend.blogspot.co....-on-ribble.html

 

 

John.

[Mark Wintle]

Over the years I've heard of roachxchub hybrids, but was never sure it was possible. When I saw it on here I did a little googling and came up with this blog.

 

It certainly looks like a bit of both, but I'm still not convinced. What do you think Steve, Mark?

 

 

http://manchesterfishingfiend.blogspot.co....-on-ribble.html

 

 

John.

 

My hunch on that picture is roach x chub. Ideally I'd want to look at a really good pic, one good enough to do scale counts and fin ray counts but the signs for a roach x chub hybrid are there, the concave anal fin, the mouth and the lateral line scale count (too low for ide). I'm getting the impression that for some reason, and I don't know the Ribble at all, the spawning grounds for chub and roach coincide on at least one stretch. When that happens it is usually due to dredging at some time in the past. This is probably why the couple (of roach x chub) that I caught many years ago were from a stretch of the Thames where similar factors are in evidence.

[Tigger]

That picture could quite easily be a young chub. I've caught many chub with the coloured fins and often found small/ young chub can be more silver in colour until they start to mature.

I can't think of nay stretches/ spawning grounds that have been dredged.

[Latimeria]

That picture could quite easily be a young chub. I've caught many chub with the coloured fins and often found small/ young chub can be more silver in colour until they start to mature.

I can't think of nay stretches/ spawning grounds that have been dredged.

 

Wasn't a chub, certain of it, that day Tony had some nice true roach and chub as well as the fish pictured (I was fishing the same line but further upstream). If you look at the eye you can see the hint of orange and the finnage was intermediate.

Mike's a mardarse, wasn't that cold that day, I was stood up to me spuds in the water and they still worked.

First I remember seeing were down at the mouth of the Darwen, I've had them as far as Elston this year, I think Tony's had them even further up.

 

Mark, if I remember I'll take a measure with me to the river and get some photographs that'll show the key meristics.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Latimeria

[Steve Walker]

I think the best river roach fishing I've had in terms of numbers and average size of fish was on the Etherow when it was first recovering from historical poor water quality. Not particularly specimen fish, though we were just trotting maggots, not aiming to be selective, just a really good average size of fish. I did have one out that I wish I had been able to weigh, because I suspect that it would have been over 2lb and would still be a PB now.

 

Over the next few years, subsequent year classes exploded, and the average size of fish fell dramatically. I think it was a phase in the recovery of the river.

[Tigger]

Wasn't a chub, certain of it, that day Tony had some nice true roach and chub as well as the fish pictured (I was fishing the same line but further upstream). If you look at the eye you can see the hint of orange and the finnage was intermediate.

Mike's a mardarse, wasn't that cold that day, I was stood up to me spuds in the water and they still worked.

First I remember seeing were down at the mouth of the Darwen, I've had them as far as Elston this year, I think Tony's had them even further up.

 

Mark, if I remember I'll take a measure with me to the river and get some photographs that'll show the key meristics.

 

 

I was fishing on the ribble last week and had over 30 chub in a session, sizes from 1 1/2lb to 3lb and their colour varied quite a lot. Some of the fish where much more silver in colour and had quite coloured fins and some of them where bronzy/ brassy coloured with dull fins. I'm pretty sure I have had a roach chub hybrid (on another river)in the past but only one - I don't think they're common at all. The hybrid I caught was much deeper than a chub and thicker than a roach with scales of an inbetween size to a roach and chub, totally different to the fish in the pic.

 

This is a picture of one of the dull finned brassy coloured chub from last week, compare it to the juvenile silvery fish in the other pic.

 

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Anderoo]

I've never seen a roach x chub hybrid (not surprising if they're rare), very interesting looking fish!

 

Has anyone seen this topic on Cemex?

 

http://www.cemexangling.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=182484

 

JV44 pointed it out to me, the man is clearly mad but what an amazing story!

 

The only good river roach fishing I've had in the past was at the Wissey in Norfolk as a youngster. There were lots of fish of all species in the river, but some of the roach I saw (the water was always gin clear) were very large. One day I remember standing on the road bridge looking down at an enormous shoal of roach and a few rudd just holding station in the current. There must have been a hundred fish, all big, but some huge looking. Without thinking ahead I cast out as soon as I could and caught one straight away, a very nice rudd of about a pound and a half, after which all the rest spooked off. I never saw them again like that, but I did catch a few nice roach of between a pound and a quarter to a pound and a half by quivertipping bread after dark in the autumn. I have an old photo somewhere of a catch of 5 such roach. That was one of my first efforts at fishing selectively and trying to target the bigger fish, I remember feeling so surprised that it actually worked! I wish I could go back in time and have another go, who knows what was possible...

 

No idea if the Wissey still has decent roach in it?

[medwaygreen]

What a wonderful interesting thread to read and for me brings back great past threads about fishing on AN, for my twopence worth it is that fishing the Thames as a youngster and then all of the Rivers of Kent from 1972 I have had 100,s if not 1000,s of Roach up to 2 lbs, some kissing that weight, but my only capture of 2 lbs plus Roach and for about two summer seasons in the mid 70,s was from the still waters of Johnson's Lakes outside Maidstone. The best fish being just below 2 lb 8 ozs and maybe, if memory serves me well a total over the two seasons of about seven fish.

[Mark Wintle]

That picture could quite easily be a young chub. I've caught many chub with the coloured fins and often found small/ young chub can be more silver in colour until they start to mature.

I can't think of any stretches/ spawning grounds that have been dredged.

 

I think you're right. I had a load of small chub today from under an ounce to about a pound (good sport on very light gear!) and I think it's a young chub as well now. I tried various positions for the anal fin and on the smaller fish it can appear (with some of them) to be concave on chub,. Therefore to be sure it is vital to get careful fin ray counts - less rays on a chub anal fin than roach - and scale counts etc.

 

I suspect what has happened on the Ribble is that a rare roach x chub has been caught then lots of people start jumping to conclusions and thinking they've had hybrids just because what they're really catching is the 'pretty' form of chub rather than the 'bronze' version. Bit like silver bream that are always being called 'hybrids'!