Undertow

[RUDD]

Having read the article on slider float fishing ( http://www.matchangler.com/infopêche/indepth/370-sliding-across-frontiers.html ) and my reply on a thread about pop up weights:

BUT also keep in mind that there may be undertow (sometimes very severe depending on venue, peg and wind conditions) that could cause the rig/bait to get dragged round off the lead at an angle - in a case like this I would use a flat lead with a fluro carbon or stiff link off the swivel, a shot just before link swivel, then a short rig tied direct to that swivel.

I feel this rig would roll around with the tow much more cleanly than a lump of putty and hopefully not tangle due to the two swivels and stiff material used.

 

I was wondering how many anglers take into account any undertow they may be facing?

 

Groundbait, light baits and expander pellets could get dragged a fair distance from the area being feed, wind going one way and a tow the other may cause too light a pole float to get dragged with the wind - therefore hookbait going the wrong way.

A pole rig plumbed so just touching bottom may be an inch or two off the bottom due to surface drag and tow on the bottom acting against each other (hence why laying on works very well to keep a bit on the deck).

As my quote - how many carp/speci anglers fishing pop ups have ever taken undertow into consideration? How many rigs have tangled due to tow?

The slider article shows that the slider outfished a swim feeder approach as the swim feeder bait would have been almost static whilst the slider fished bait would have been moving.

 

Any other thoughts on undertow? I suspect alot of anglers do not ever take it into account and sit there thinking fish are not feeding when they actually are.

 

[Phone]

RUDD,

 

On the Missouri River, and most of our large rivers, undertow is a major consideration. The Missouri River flows, on average, at 5.6 mph with a flow rate of about 25,000 cu f/s.

 

Tangled rigs are common. Whirlpools can be fatal should a person get caught up in one whilst in the water.

 

Even on large "still water" venues where a hydro electric dam creates the lake in the first place the release of water from the dam causes major undertow In may instances there is a hydro electric dam on both ends of the lake making the water slosh to and fro although it is not precieved whilst angling it certainly affects/effects the bait presentation. In my "favorite" lake the dams are 92 miles apart.

 

I think this undertow is probably one of the reasons we use MUCH heavier everything. It is simply a must on some venues.

 

Phone

[John Weddup]

Hi Rudd

 

I like you suspect many anglers do not take it into account.

 

I for one take it very seriously. Having been brought up through match and pleasure fishing that I took very seriously I soon learn't about tow. I have carried that into my specimen fishing with me.

 

The tow on some of the big waters around us such as Alton Ardleigh or the ocean pit can be huge and what with depths of up to 40ft feeding and fishing in the same spot is extremely difficult.

 

As you know even on a small water pole fishing where you try to keep everything tight in the winter you do not fish directly under your pole pot in windy conditions.

 

This is a good subject.

 

I know people will say its been talked of before but I think all the proper angling subjects are best brought up every now and again to get fresh idea's and new knowledge from both old and new members.

 

John

[gozzer]

Rather than try to hold a 'still' bait, I often trot with the flow. Bulk shot well down to catch the under tow, Wind blowing 'upstream', perfect trotting conditions. Some fish don't seem to like battling the undertow, but roach don't seem to mind.

 

John.

[John Weddup]

Rather than try to hold a 'still' bait, I often trot with the flow. Bulk shot well down to catch the under tow, Wind blowing 'upstream', perfect trotting conditions. Some fish don't seem to like battling the undertow, but roach don't seem to mind.

 

John.

 

 

I think reading the speed of the undertow at different depths on a stillwater is much harder than doing so on a river. Certainly a job for the right float and proper shotting patterns. Also bearing in mind when trotting a river it can be calm wind conditions but on a still water to get these conditions there will be a wind.

 

Very often the top layer of water will be going at say 2mph one way and the tow can be 4mph the other.

 

John

[poledark]

Used to be one of my pet subjects, I have been saying for years,that if you can get to understand the effect of 'tow on a stillwater, you are well on your way to finding fish. I do believe that fish, especially big ones, or bream shaped ones, get moved by 'tow, unless they fight it.

 

I did quite a long piece on one of the Wingham threads, describing how leaves and surface dust, can end up in a certain spot, usually where the 'tow loses momentum. At the exMKF "Mill" due to the shape there were several 'tows working at once, and you could see where they met as the wave pattern changed.

 

Fascinating subject...........

 

Den

[Phone]

poledark,

 

It is indeed one of the most difficult parts to watercraft. On a couple venues where spring currents coupled with surface created undertow we used to use Alka Seltzer to track the intersection off a point. It works.

 

Phone

[Dales]

Well done Rudd a proper fishing topic.

 

I do worry about undertow a lot when fishing especially when fishing deep water. I try to take in to consideration what is going on when baiting. It can be devillishly difficult to get ground baiting right when you suspect tow could be effecting your feed. A few times when fishing multiple rods I have noticed that the rod I suspect is on the money may well be outside my baited area and the rod that I thought was 2 metres outside my baited spot is likely to be on the bait and that's the one that gets the bites. For this reason it can be tempting to use a heavy mix to get it down quickly but even then will it stay in place or will tow drag it along the bottom.

 

It certainly is something I wish I understood more about or could read with more consitantancy. I do struggle to get it right on many occasions but agree with Den if you can work out what is going on it should put you on the fish.

[Mat Hillman]

Very often the top layer of water will be going at say 2mph one way and the tow can be 4mph the other.

 

John

 

I'm finding that very hard to visualise without imagining all the water ending up on one side of the lake! I generally assume that is the surface layer is moving 2mph one way, that the much deeper layer under the surface must be moving in the opposite direction at a slower speed as there is more water moving back the other way.

 

Mat

[John Weddup]

I'm finding that very hard to visualise without imagining all the water ending up on one side of the lake! I generally assume that is the surface layer is moving 2mph one way, that the much deeper layer under the surface must be moving in the opposite direction at a slower speed as there is more water moving back the other way.

 

Mat

Hi Matt

 

I see your point but its the bank and the depth changes as the water aproaches it that changes things.

 

If the wind is blowing into a bay the top layer is being funnelled in and therefore increasing its speed beyond where you are fishing. It comes out pretty fast.

 

The shape of the bank the shape of the bottom, bottom features etc make a huge difference. For instance behind a bar or any rise in the bottom you can have an area just like a slack in a river.

 

 

The hardest part as always is knowing what the speed of the water is where you want to present a bait. If your bait is travelling at a different speed your chance of a bite is less. Obviously thats for float fishing.

 

Like Dales I have often fished a big water with 3 rods at distance into 20ft plus. You bait the area spodding or catapulting with marker float out. You fish clipped up and within your baited area and find either the left or right rod gets all the action. On those occasions I have generally shifted my line and find all rods then behave. Sometimes it is not the direction you expect.

 

For this reason in warm conditions fishing deep and at distance I now use a method feeder. I can at least be sure something is near the hook. Also not all the fish sit over the baited area some roam around the main shoal and often they are the bigger ones so I do not torture myself too much about being bang on the feed. I don't believe in that sort of fishing to have the feed in a small area anyway.

 

A small area is probably better in match circumstances in that sort of fishing but if you bait too close and are not on it you might not catch at all. If your bait is spread they will roam around and eventually cover your feed area. Also less chance of spooking them when spread.

 

When you start thinking of the tow and then chuck in the temperature affect wind chill or warming depending on air and water temp then your head starts to think its easier to understand women.

 

john