Fishing can be so so cruel........

[medwaygreen]

Hello Phil,

 

Glad to see you got some good advise through the night. This is what i would say to you.

 

I do not of course know what float set up you are using so you may be doing this already, but as you again had a similar experience last night properly not.

 

I think the first thing is getting the balance of float set up right for the fishing you have, for small Perch or really small any thing, I would fish as light as possible, some canal insets only take four number 6 or less, as Gozzer said make sure you shot the float so you get early signs of a bite, say starting perhaps on the bottom with the last shot being approximately two inches from the hook then increasing by only one inch at a time should you be missing the bites. Use barbless or semi-barbed hooks and have a look at the pattern choice, I do not know if circle hooks are available in the sizes required interesting article here http://www.dnr.maryland.gov/fisheries/fish...eport/crsb.html, but more rounded wide gap hooks with in or slight turns are available ( look at Drennan Super feeder or similar) may help in your set up. Its all about sensitivity and early awareness, as a previous poster said, a four inch movement on the float before striking is to late. Phil imagine fishing at six foot depth with your last shot twelve inches from the float, the amount of water space a small fish would have available to move in without moving the float is very large so to move it then by four inches is major and may take the fish a very long time.

 

Also if a fish can take down a fat juicy worm you surly can buy a disgorger that will fit that mouth.

 

Lastly i to would only use a disgorger to help in unhooking small fish and most of time always use one for small fish its cleaner, faster and easier.

 

Regards.

Edited July 18, 2007 by medwaygreen

[Guest Rabbit]

Phil I do hope you take on board some of the advice. There is probably nothing so traumatic in Angling than to deal with deeply hooked fish. I suggested you were fishing over depth and therefore you were not get any indication on the float until the bait had been swallowed, I also said you should look at your shotting pattern. Gozzer has a tremendous amount of patience and so does Medwaygreen, more than me, and they have explained at length what you should do.

 

Rabbit avoid personal attacks.

Thanks

[Anderoo]

...a diary of incompetence that makes me ashamed that you can call yourself an Angler. You seem to take some sort of pleasure in sharing with the world your fumblings, do what you will, for it seems the moderators have given you a licence to post what you want , for the sake of TheBlog. Thankfully some members have the balls to stand up and say something rather than just hide away

 

Steady on old boy. What's worse - making a mistake and keeping it secret or making a mistake and openly asking for help? Sounds to me like Phil is trying different things and wants to sort this problem out. Besides which, even with the most sensitive gear and razor sharp reflexes, there's always one little perch or ruffe who will take a bait down.

 

Phil, keep the blog going - I love it.

 

A couple of things occur to me. Are you fishing only for the carp and are these other fish 'nuisance' fish? If so, don't use worms and maggots straight on the hook. Use a hair rig. A little perch is far less likely to get hooked that way. Or don't use those baits at all, go for a big lump of bread/pellet/meat/corn over hemp. Fish these in conjuunction with a big hook (8 or 6)

 

Regardless of bait, if float fishing fish at dead depth or just a couple of inches overdepth with a tell-tale shot 3-4" from the hook. If the canal draws and pulls the bait of of position, overshot so some shot is on the bottom.

 

Use the most delicate float you can. Use a pole float if you need to.

 

Limit the number of rods you use.

 

If you're trying to catch the little ones, use a pole if you have one, or a very delicate set-up as above and fish at dead depth. Use barbless hooks so if one does get swallowed it's easier to remove. Strike quickly and accept that you might miss some.

 

Just a few observations

[gozzer]

Hang on Rabbit, it might disgust you to read of Phils exploits, but to me it's a diary, (warts and all), of one mans attempts to reach a goal, and to learn in the process.

 

I don't know how long Phils been angling, (he has said that he doesn't have much experience of float fishing), but I doubt it's as long as you or I. In my case it's nearly 50yrs, and I'm not ashamed to say that I'm still learning.

The fact that he started this thread, told of his mistakes, and asked for answers, proves that he is not just his flaunting his fumbles (Ooer mrs ), but asking for positive feedback from those more experienced than he is.

We all make mistakes, (even after 50yrs). Deep hooked fish and fish fatalities, are a part of angling, but experience and improved techniques help keep them to a minimum. But some prefer to hide that fact for some reason. Maybe they haven't got the "balls" to admit it, though they certainly have them to criticize someone asking for help.

I'm surprised that more of the 'experienced' anglers on AN haven't been more forthcoming with advise. I'm ashamed to say that I have not posted as much as I could.

I would much prefer to give advice on a thread like this, where the angler is at least trying to solve the problems, and explains the situation, than one where someone just says, "what bait will catch me xxxx, or how deep should I fish for xxxx", with no regard or info' as to water, location, type of set up etc.

 

As for the patience thing, well I was always told that persistence, tempered with patience will stand you in good stead in angling. And I've yet to see it proved wrong.

 

John.

[DavyR]

I'm surprised that more of the 'experienced' anglers on AN haven't been more forthcoming with advise. I'm ashamed to say that I have not posted as much as I could.

 

Perhaps they remember what happened on the last occasion a poster confessed to deep-hooking a fish. That caused a right old hoo-hah that got distinctly unpleasant before everything calmed down again.

[gozzer]

Perhaps they remember what happened on the last occasion a poster confessed to deep-hooking a fish. That caused a right old hoo-hah that got distinctly unpleasant before everything calmed down again.

 

But that was just Bob, having a blast, Davy. It all got sorted, though even I nearly lost it on that one. But he's a pussy cat really, (aren't you Bob?) .

 

John.

[WickerDave]

Are there pike or zander in the canal? If so just put out a fourth rod with a freshly dead perch or roach as bait .

 

P.S. Please keep the blog running, despite the criticisms and smartass comments.

[Janet]

The fact that he started this thread, told of his mistakes, and asked for answers, proves that he is not just his flaunting his fumbles (Ooer mrs ), but asking for positive feedback from those more experienced than he is.

 

but to me it's a diary, (warts and all), of one mans attempts to reach a goal, and to learn in the process.

 

...and in the process help beginners like myself learn and avoid mistakes.

 

I love this blog. Please keep it going, and let's just try and keep the negative comments to a minimum.

 

Janet

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Well first of all, thanks to all who have offered their advice.

 

Firstly Rabbit.......I have no intention of having a slanging match with you, but find your remarks extremely disapointing. There are some on here who I expect to comment in such a manner, but rather thought you was above that kind of thing. Perhaps when you've read this reply you may hopefully change your stance.

 

As for the mods, I think they can see as many can that it is just a diary (warts n all as has been said) and something for others to read. If by reading this in the future someone can perhaps NOT have the problems I'm having then that will be a bonus. To those who worry that I will stop doing this blog....fear not, while Elton is happy for me to keep it up, and there is a readership then I will continue.

 

Most people I guess begin their fishing as kids fishing with a float for tiddlers and hence have a good grounding in good practice for fishing for small fish. I didn't. I started fishing 4 years ago and the first fish I caught was a 10lb carp on a method feeder and number 6 hook! My fishing predominantly revolves around catching the bigger fish, ie barbel and carp with heavy tackle and decent sized hooks. In fact a friend of mine laughs at me because I consider a number 10 to be a small hook.

 

Richard Capper suggested that perhaps the carp in the canal might respond to float fishing. I basically took off my big hook and replaced it with a nice thin wire number 10 but kept the 12lb carp silk hook length and 15lb mainline. The idea was to fish for the carp but with one eye open for the odd bream or decent roach which might cruise by. The float was a pre weighted puddle chucker which I guessed was ok for the carp too. Its worth noting that whilst I fished sweet corn like this, I had no problems at all and caught both bream and a few roach, it was only when I switched to maggot and subsequently worm that my problems occured.

 

Now contrary to what has been suggested, I DID change tactics by lengthening and shortening my hook length, checking and re-checking my depth was ok and adjusting when I strike, but clearly nothing I was doing was quite right......on that basis I gave up last night as I didnt want to risk anymore fish without getting some decent advice.

 

I'm still a little confused though. I was struggling for bites ont he carp pool before and was told I needed to let the roach bites 'develop' when fishing sweetcorn. I did this by waiting until the float actually went down (or really did go on a mad kite) rather than striking as soon as it moved. Fishing this technique with corn and in 2 or 3 feet of water has worked well and I rarely ever need the disgorger. This technique with maggot or worm however seems to end in disaster. Is it the case that the fish will wolf down a wriggling bait far more readily than they will a static bait as that certainly seems to be the case.

 

I also get the feeling that fishing in no mans land is causing me problems. I need to either put a bait on that the small ones won't try and take (I did try this route with the lobworm and really didnt expect to see that ruf last night!!) or tackle right down and fish for the small fish only..........although only if I can get my technique right.

 

Anyway, I may go and have another go tonight.........

 

Thanks for your input.

Edited July 18, 2007 by Brumagem Phil

[Kappa]

The float was a pre weighted puddle chucker which I guessed was ok for the carp too.

 

I reckon this might be your problem! If memory serves these are quite large and thus fairly insensitive. Also as they are pre weighted most of the weight is at the base of the float not down the line. When fishing with floats like these I've often found fish can move some distance with the bait before registering a bite, and even then the float only moves sideways. I'd get yourself a nice smaller non pre weighted insert waggler. This should be more sensitive and hopefully help with the deep hooking. Little perch are real buggers for swallowing the bait especially when you are hoping for larger species and letting the bite develop.

 

Ignore those just wanting to put you down and good luck,

 

Rich