licences and bag limits look as if they are well into the distance.

[glennk]

One of the points made at the meeting last night by anglers was that it was now time to stop throwing the preverbial brick bats at a particular sector, what had been, had been, and that no good could come from persitant condemnation of that sector.

 

Hi Nigel,

 

Brick bats

 

I did try to reply last night but struggled to do so at that point . I think to a certain extent what was said was right. However I would like to challenge some of it. Yes I agree the past is gone and we can now do nothing about it, those fish can not be replaced. If all the bad practices of the past are left their too I have no problem. If bad practices from the past are also the presnt and the future then for want of a bettre phrase I feel you must throw brick bats. I also note that Yourself, Leon and a few others also have the ear of the minister, members of DEFRA and other related agencies. The fact Defra sent people to the north east to talk to anglers and will be doing so on a reguler basis is very significant in itself. They are listening to you, you have taken a seat at the table. The fishing industry do not like that, they see it as a threat to them continuing unchecked to have sole exploitation of the resource. There they will throw brick bats at you and Leon and everyone else. In a civilised world they would sit down to sensible debate, unfortunately this is the real world with growing numbers of People like Mr Treblecock (or was it little cock - terrible with names sorry!!!!), binatone, and that nasty man who chose to slag of people who climb into smoke filled buildings to save our lives. It might be desirable and a lot more comfortable to do away with brick bats but I think they will be hanging around so dont forget your anti brick bat Jacket

Edited June 22, 2006 by glennk

[The doctor]

I think to a certain extent what was said was right. However I would like to challenge some of it. Yes I agree the past is gone and we can now do nothing about it, those fish can not be replaced. If all the bad practices of the past are left their too I have no problem. If bad practices from the past are also the presnt and the future then for want of a bettre phrase I feel you must throw brick bats.

 

Hi Glenn,

 

I agree in principal with what you are saying, however, RSA is not all whiter than white, although the problem is not as great as some would have us believe, and this was the point I was trying to make wrt the differentiation between genuine sea anglers and those unlicensed fishermen who masaquerade as recreational sea anglers. As the commercial sector of the industry becomes more regulated and diminishes in size (compared to a decade ago) the instances of malpractice will diminish. Many anglers have the firm belief that noncompliance or breach of regulation, in terms of those caught, is just the tip of the iceberg, the problem is that there is no indication of how large the iceberg is, it maybe large, it may be relatively small. I may be niaive (I don't think so to a huge degree), but the situation is improving, although I hate to say it, more as a result of increased enforcement and stiffer penalties rather than a willingness to stay within quota etc. I think more can be gained from highlighting breaches of regulation and the sometimes inappropriate penalties delivered as a result rather than resorting to name calling, in other words take the moral high ground (light the torch paper and stand well back)

 

 

I also note that Yourself, Leon and a few others also have the ear of the minister, members of DEFRA and other related agencies. They are listening to you, you have taken a seat at the table. The fishing industry do not like that, they see it as a threat to them continuing unchecked to have sole exploitation of the resource. There they will throw brick bats at you and Leon and everyone else. In a civilised world they would sit down to sensible debate, unfortunately this is the real world with growing numbers of People like Mr Treblecock (or was it little cock - terrible with names sorry!!!!), binatone, and that nasty man who chose to slag of people who climb into smoke filled buildings to save our lives. It might be desirable and a lot more comfortable to do away with brick bats but I think they will be hanging around so dont forget your anti brick bat Jacket

 

You are right, the industry do not like the thought that 'now the bloody danglers are screwing it up for us, on top of the environmentalists, who's next!!!!!', the situation is improving, as they now realise that we are a genuine stakeholder, and to be inside fighting their corner, is better than outside complaining. Which is why we are also inside and sat at the table, and not outside bitching and throwing the preverbial. Its a strange notion, and possibly untenable to some, but there may come a time in the not too distant future (post marine bill) where the recreational and commercial sectors have to sit down together under an alliance in order to fight off a much bigger threat to our existance and their way of life. In a world of increasing conservation, the issues of rod licences and bag limits may pale into insignificance, if the right or freedom to fish anywhere is challenged.

 

Cheers

 

 

Doc.

[glennk]

Hi Glenn,

 

I agree in principal with what you are saying, however, RSA is not all whiter than white, although the problem is not as great as some would have us believe, and this was the point I was trying to make wrt the differentiation between genuine sea anglers and those unlicensed fishermen who masaquerade as recreational sea anglers.

 

I did find that whole thing rather strange. Do they really associate recreational rod and line anglers with poachers? The two are so far apart that I wouldn't have believed it possible for them to think that. Perhaps I am Naive but the difference is so obvious the whole thing is laughable. Also the mention of the buyers and sellers thing was rather patronising in that setting. I felt like I was a naughty schoolboy under suspision of pinching sweets and selling them in the play ground.

Edited June 22, 2006 by glennk

[The doctor]

I did find that whole thing rather strange. Do they really associate recreational rod and line anglers with poachers? The two are so far apart that I wouldn't have believed it possible for them to think that. Perhaps I am Naive but the difference is so obvious the whole thing is laughable. Also the mention of the buyers and sellers thing was rather patronising in that setting. I felt like I was a naughty schoolboy under suspision of pinching sweets and selling them in the play ground.

 

The problem is Glenn, that the principal agencies both in the UK and EU consider that there are two sectors of the fishing industry, the commercial sector and the recreational sector (hobbyists). as the commercial sector are licensed, all others fall into the recreational sector, including those unlicensed vessels/fishermen.

The problem is that in some countries, france and Denmark especially, unlicensed fishermen tend to use gill nets and then sell their catch. This is were the problem lies, because they are not recreational sea anglers, but for ease of reckoning they are lumped under the name of hobbyists in with RSA. It was the need to differentiate between these two segments that I referred to last night, because all the while that unlicesed fishermen are considered as recreational sea anglers, our detractors can use this against us to bring in stringent regulations that bear no resemblance to the true facts. i don't deny that there are rod and lines fishernmen out there that do indeed sell their catch, my argument is that it is they who should be regulated and or have their activities prohibited and not the rank and file sea angler who goes fishing for pleasure and or to have a few fresh fillets to put on the table/in the home freezer.

 

Its this differentiation that needs to be made and once this is done true recreational sea angling activity can be promoted in a different light.

 

Wrt the registration of buyers and sellers, the point I was trying to make with this was, that if there is still a problem with the capture and sale of fish from unlicensed boats or fishermen, then the legislation is not working. Better to solve the problem at source rather than trying to backtrack through grey and hazy dealings.

 

Cheers

 

 

Doc.

[slackline]

I did find that whole thing rather strange. Do they really associate recreational rod and line anglers with poachers? The two are so far apart that I wouldn't have believed it possible for them to think that. Perhaps I am Naive but the difference is so obvious the whole thing is laughable. Also the mention of the buyers and sellers thing was rather patronising in that setting. I felt like I was a naughty schoolboy under suspision of pinching sweets and selling them in the play ground.

 

Hi GLENNK

no body is pointing a finger at you or any person in particular.What is being said is there has been and probably still is a quantity of rod and line caught fish being sold to comercial outlets. whether these be cafe's chip shop or wet fish shops it has gone on and likley still does

[Steve Coppolo]

Your correct I am worried about the angling lobby, not because of what they could do to the commercial sector (there not up to government departments high standard of bad management just yet) but what they are going to do to the RSA of the future.

I am not trying to cause a split, I am trying to but across what I think are the concerns of a silent majority.

 

Perhaps things are different throughout the country, but all the anglers I talk to when I'm fishing are saying the same things. My opinions are based on what I personally believe, and what I hear from other anglers too. I don't get the impression that there is a silent majority around these parts, I get the impression that we are all singing from the same song sheet.

[John S]

ENOUGH!

 

This is an angling forum, not your own private little sniping gallery. If you lot have a problem with each other, keep it to the local pubs or email. We don't want this rubbish spoiling the forum anymore.

 

Just deleted 17 posts. If yours was amongst them, tough.

[glennk]

ENOUGH!

 

This is an angling forum, not your own private little sniping gallery. If you lot have a problem with each other, keep it to the local pubs or email. We don't want this rubbish spoiling the forum anymore.

 

Just deleted 17 posts. If yours was amongst them, tough.

 

Thanks John S. Shame to let a decent topic go west

[John S]

Thanks John S. Shame to let a decent topic go west

 

See, I'm not the nasty ogre that some people think I am, I do listen to people sometimes. Btw, I expect your cheque in the post by Saturday

[steve good]

Went to a meeting last night in scarborough an open forum regarding issues associated with sea angling and peoples concerns in angling.

There was representives from the Northeastern sea fisheries and also Defra when the mention of licences was put to the these reprecentives the feeling i got was licences seemed to be not in there vocabulary for the forseable future and also the when challenged about bag limits regarding this touchy subject it lookes as if it could be many years away .

Concerns were raised about the possible impact on angling in general IE charterboats tackle shops etc if licences were to be introduced and again it looked like it was seen as a counterproductive measure .

 

hi big cod

well thats nice to know

we that is us commercials are just starting a campaign to bring anglers into line eg licences and payments bag limits or quotas

will be interesting how we will get on

 

regards steve