Israel - some facts

[kleinboet]

Sorry I have not been on this thread as I was in bed ill.

Brumegem Phil - I am so shocked that you will allow a bunch of terrorists to kill innocent people EVERY day until you do act!!

 

Wonderful story Newt. It is unfotunate that these people get themselves so wrapped up in the "holier than thou" mantle that they don't read a story through properly!

Glenb - RUBBISH!!! sorry I can't make it any clearer than that! WHO started the fight? WHO was looking for a fight all night? WHO would not be drawn by the jibes of a bigger, heavier man until he was physically assaulted? WHO'S THE BULLY?

 

Gozzer - I was in another country when there was riots and we had a lady driving her car through the rioters screaming hysterically "please don't hurt me - I'M BRITISH!!!!!!!" Please don't hide behind your keyboard saying DEMOCRACY - if you think it will help go tell that to Hesbollah or rthe Israelis!

 

BP - you asked the question - what if it had been knives? - answer, it wasn't. Question for you, seeing as how you want all bases touched, how long is a piece of string.

 

You are all so busy wrapped up in your little P.C. worlds, that you will argue anything!

Edited August 3, 2006 by kleinboet

[DavyR]

Wonderful story Newt. It is unfotunate that these people get themselves so wrapped up in the "holier than thou" mantle that they don't read a story through properly!

 

Perhaps it would have been better for Newt to give us his opinions in his own words, rather than doing a cut and paste job - it's not as if he hasn't got the ability to put over a coherent argument if he wants to.

 

It's no good him saying his opinions would upset some people - that doesn't stop anyone else on here, and as he said himself, some people wouldn't like the sentiment expressed (rather heavy-handedly) in his parable anyway.

 

All that the "holier than thou" people are trying to do is to introduce a bit of moderation to counteract the propaganda - neither side in this debacle (I mean the Middle East, not AN) has a clear-cut monopoly on "right". The two sides are basically fighting over territory that neither has a 100% claim to.

[corydoras]

You are all so busy wrapped up in your little P.C. worlds, that you will argue anything!

If you had been born a Palestinian, what would you be doing? Fighting for your homeland or taking Israeli schlong up your butt?

[chesters1]

the pocketed vest was far more entertaining ,perhaps hitler lost because he didnt have one.

as notice its extremely hard to destroy thought ,you can get a chap and torture him to see your way but let him go and he become more carefull expressing his thoughts.

 

the west can say or do what they like in the middle east but nothing will change untill they decide to get along with each other under their own steam .the more people interfere the more hardened the people get if they see the opposite lot getting preffential treatment.

 

arm the lot (not just israel) and let them fight till their sick of it ,theve been at each others throats for generations (not just arab verses jew but tribe verses tribe etc) so getting involved will only drag things on .

the only people that can bring peace to the middle east is the middle east ,had we not got involved (by dropping israel in amoungst them) no doupt any war we would see is petty squabbling not of borders (which we made) but tribal lands as there have always been between each other which would have flared up and died down by themselves.

 

the harder we force "democaracy" on fuedle (sp?) based regimes the more it causes strife and ends up (as in lebanon and palestine etc) with "democraticaly"elected regimes consisting of those hard line elements we (the west) wanted to get rid of by suggesting it in the first place.iraq will end up in a internal war which will end up with the same system they had before we put borders we liked in the region instead of "natural " ones as existed for aeons before.

 

the inhabitants of those countries must be confused by this "democaracy" we try to instill in them as its no different to what they had before ,"democaracy" to them is just another notion of being under a war lord but its one that doesent live there ,same old power hunger ,murder ,greed and lust for land but the inhabitants have no way of getting rid of them unlike a homegrown one.

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

Brumegem Phil - I am so shocked that you will allow a bunch of terrorists to kill innocent people EVERY day until you do act!!

 

Errrr where did I say that?

 

When pushed you actually admitted that if the welsh nationalists launched a rocket at London from atop a tower block in Cardiff that you would launch an airstricke to level the tower block. So in effect you are saying to protect yourself from a person who is too crafty for you to get on his own you would kill 40 or 50 innocent people who had nothing to do with the attack on you.

 

Frankly I'm embarrased for you.

[GlennB]

....

Glenb - RUBBISH!!! sorry I can't make it any clearer than that! WHO started the fight? WHO was looking for a fight all night? WHO would not be drawn by the jibes of a bigger, heavier man until he was physically assaulted? WHO'S THE BULLY?

 

Do pay attention Kleinboet, you're missing the point entirely. I wasn't talking about the fight in the bar.

e.g. -

When Allende was elected in Chile, Nixon and the CIA didn't like the cut of his left-wing jib.

The US started off by sabotaging the Chilean economy, recruiting the Chilean military and alienating the Chilean politicos with a mixture of lies, money and personal pressure.

Eventually the plan worked and thousands died in the miltary coup. Many thousands more died ('were disappeared') under the subsequent regime of Gen. Pinochet and his death squads.

See what I mean now?

Who was the "bully" in Chile?

[chesters1]

was it jimmy hendrix??

or ernest? gevarra (che' to his friends) some pop group anyway! i believe .no not wham

Edited August 3, 2006 by chesters1

[kleinboet]

Thats right guys when you get caught out with your "it's totally wrong" by saying I didn't mean this - I meant that. No matter how simple you try and make it, you just don't care!!

 

I am going to try and make this as unambiguous as I can!

 

1) All of the arab countries grow up being told to hate the Jews and Israel. Do you agree that teaching children to hate others is wrong!

 

2) If certain people start shelling a country indiscriminately from a populated area because they hate them and want to destroy them. Do you agree that's wrong!

 

3) If these people get told to stop it or they will be retaliated against NO MATTER WHAT, they answer by sending more rockets. Would you agree that is wrong?

 

So who's to blame for the civilians getting killed in Lebanon? The Israelis, I don't think so!!

 

 

Newt has pointed out the M.O. of these organisations, and this time it has gone wrong, horribly wrong. I deplore the loss of innocent life in Lebanon the same way I deplored the loss of innocent lives in the July 7 bombings. The unfortunate thing is I can see the Israeli side of things, you guys can't!

[corydoras]

So who's to blame for the civilians getting killed in Lebanon? The Israelis, I don't think so!!

Newt has pointed out the M.O. of these organisations, and this time it has gone wrong, horribly wrong. I deplore the loss of innocent life in Lebanon the same way I deplored the loss of innocent lives in the July 7 bombings. The unfortunate thing is I can see the Israeli side of things, you guys can't!

That's not true. I for one can see the Israeli side of things, like I said before in this topic and many times before in others, folks is just folks the world over. We are all the same, were all human beings and we are all stuck on a tiny little bue planet in the middle of nowhere. The world gave Palestine to the Jews, the problem was that it was not theirs to give and now the real owners want it back

 

The problem is that you don't seem to be able to see this sad mess from any other side except the Israeli side. Like I said before, if I was born as a Palestinian Arab then I would probably be manning a Hizbolla rocket launcher too.

 

I too was brought up to hate, except that I was brought up to hate Roman Catholics, not Jews. I don't hate Catholics any more, in fact I married one and both my children are being raised as Catholics.

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

I agree cory. KB seems intent on trying to provide some form of reasoning as to why its ok to kill innocent people.

 

I gave him the comparison with welsh nationalists hoping it might make him see the eror of his ways, but amazingly no, he said he'd level the block of flats

 

Old KB makes Donald Rumsfled look like a sunday school teacher (only teasin KB)

Edited August 3, 2006 by Brumagem Phil