Barbless hooks and safety

[carpstar]

It is funny but when I post an opinion, I always get shot down and usually by the same people.

 

It's probably due to posting drivel like this!

 

 

Carpstar: If you don't think you need watercraft to decide where to fish, experience to know whether the fish are "up or down" in the water, you don't need to know how to cast, tie knots etc. (which put together is an art) you shouldn't be fishing!

 

When did i ever say i didn't need any of them?

Even all the above it's still not an 'Art' or do you class using your experience in every thing in life an 'ART'?

[Dick Dastardly]

First of all let me say that none of my remarks were aimed specifically at youngsters.They were aimed at anyone comming into the sport.In fact my experiences have shown me that older "begginers" are more of a problem as they are often not prepared to learn from others.

 

Ian I totally agree with your veiws on over legislation.I think that it would always be a very real danger if we did introduce a "must do" type of instruction before a licence could be issued.That said I still like the idea of anglers being taught and tested before they can go it alone.Im sure you can see my point and the value of this? It seems purely that if such a system was introduced for the benifit of both anglers and angling that it would be at risk of being hijacked and beccoming too restrictive that worries us all?

 

The German system has been in place for several decades now and works without problem.I know of no Germans who object to the system.I should imagine that the biggest objectors in the UK would be experienced fishermen rather than novices! That old "who are you to tell me whats right" attitude that many of us (my self included!) suffer from.

 

I see the whole thing as a benifical thing for newcomers,helping them into the sport rather than detering them.But as allready said I would echo your concerns that the "red tape" brigade would grab it and run with it!

 

Several on here (allthough I accept the very valid points they make) seem to be arguing this from their own personal point of veiw as experienced anglers and see it as a potentially restrictive system to them.You guys allready know how to fish at various levels,you all ready know you have to have a rod licence (and indeed hold one) and the main rules that the EA lay down. Im suggesting this from a begginers point.

 

Im far from sure that my initial sugestions for a different system are correct,infact not entirely sure one is needed. But as I said before if we wish to see a change (any change) in the problem (?) areas discussed then we must surely look towards a different system or simply shut up and accept the one we have with its good and bad points?

 

A very common Brittish attitude (even more common amongst anglers so it seems!) to bitch and whine about some thing without being prepared to do anything about it! Change is frightening.

[ColinW]

Actually, I agree that angling (as performed by serious practitioners) is an art. One of the definitions of the word art is

"Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation."

[kleinboet]

Carpstar, the name says it all, if it's not a Carp, it's not a fish. So I will ignore further comments from you as you wouldn't know art if it bit you!

 

Corydorus and DavyR: I have a lake near me that is very productive, let me rephrase that, it WAS very productive until the "kids" took over. He has put a large notice up stating the unaccompanied anglers are not permitted unless accompanied by an adult over 21. The mum's still come down and dump the kids, shouting that she will pick them up in 5 or 6 hours as she speeds out the gate. The owner comes down and tells them to phone their mom (or whoever brought them) as they are not allowed to fish. Suddenly noone has a phone and when marched up to the office to use that phone no-one is available! He is now thinking of closing his water as his fish are getting so damaged that the regulars are complaining!

Edited August 17, 2006 by kleinboet

[DavyR]

Kleinboet - Nobody would disagree with you that the situation you have described is a bad one. In fact, if your original post had been as reasonable as that one was (well, the second paragraph anyway) nobody would have "shot you down".

 

Mind you, "an adult over 21" is a lot more sensible than your original suggestion of "over 30", and the kids you mention sound considerably younger than 18, which was the age at which you thought unaccompanied fishing acceptable.

[carpstar]

Carpstar, the name says it all, if it's not a Carp, it's not a fish. So I will ignore further comments from you as you wouldn't know art if it bit you!

 

Most amusing,you don't have a clue do you?

 

yes my name say's Carpstar and so you put 1+1 together and come up with 15!!! Yes i fish for Carp but also Tench which happens to be my favourite freshwater fish and i have fished for many ,many years for most coarse fish but i've decided to go along the specimen route now for Carp and Tench so your 'if it's not a Carp then it's not a fish' is absolute twaddle!

 

Please don't try to make assumptions based on peoples names as you may just find out as in this case that you are wrong AGAIN!!!

 

It's probably due to posting drivel like this!

 

I refer you back to my previous quote

[kleinboet]

I said I wouldn't Answer but I have to defend myself! Carpstar, you say you like to catch Tench, do you catch them by accident? Or do you actually target them? And Roach, Rudd etc.? They all need the ART of watercraft to catch them on purpose.

 

I fished the lake I was talking about out a week ago and targeted Crucians. I had caught about 14 when a Carp fisherman asked me how the fishing was, I replied that I had caught about 14 and he said "no you haven't, I have been fishing here for 12 years, there are no Crucians in here" as luck would have it, I had a take right then, and showed him the Crucian when I had landed it. He replied he had never seen one caught there before. THAT is watercraft, which is an ART!

Edited August 18, 2006 by kleinboet

[UK-Fishing-Tackle.co.uk]

Maybe, but as an outsider to that particular argument the scientist in me would perhaps refer to it as a skill. There is no point arguing it though folks, as if someone feels it's an art it's there personal choice.

 

As a specific example though Kleinboet I think your lake owner is simply at fault. I mean if he really wanted he could put a set of gates at the venue and allow admission on an individual basis - for what an intercom costs these days it would be very simple, and he could always use low cost keyfobs for regulars. Lake owners, whilst I know some very good ones, can sometimes be a bit whingy - it's a business, and all businesses have problems, but most businesses endeavour to fix them as and when the occur.

 

Too many venues are ran like they were 30 years ago, and frankly times are changing and they need to realise that. I know some venues that have required no (or very little) stocking in 20 years, have no facilities, and yet the owner, who has long paid for the venue, walks around collecting his £6 day tickets for a place which frankly would fail even a basic health and safety inspection, let alone meet the needs of running a proper business and providing service to customers (such as toilets etc).

 

Sorry but I cannot sympathise with that situation - as I said - we vote with our feet. If that venue has a problem you go elsewhere, and then that lakeowner will be forced to take responsibility and find a solution.

 

Simple really.

[kleinboet]

I appreciate what you say (and agree with you!) this place, however, cannot do what you say.

The owner is an owner of a B&B on the premises and the lake is an integral part of the property and sits right next to the entrance gates. He cannot lock the gates, as it is the only entrance to the car park (shared by the anglers) and B&B.

As I was one of the few who persuaded him to open his (then) pond to anglers, I feel a tad responsible for his predicament. He really does try, and was nearly run over by a mother who dumped (sorry dropped) two 12 or 13 year olds off, and then got a tongue lashing from the mother - who only stopped when I and several other anglers approached the car!

[Steve Burke]

Too many venues are ran like they were 30 years ago, and frankly times are changing and they need to realise that. I know some venues that have required no (or very little) stocking in 20 years, have no facilities, and yet the owner, who has long paid for the venue, walks around collecting his £6 day tickets for a place which frankly would fail even a basic health and safety inspection, let alone meet the needs of running a proper business and providing service to customers (such as toilets etc).

 

 

IMO too few venues are run like they were 30 years ago! Most waters are grossly overstocked and could do with fish being taken out not put in! Personally I prefer a natural water any day, not one with plush toilets, parking behind your swim and food delivered to your bivvy door! I'd happily pay much more than £6 for a day ticket on such wild waters.

 

What's more, whether the owner has long since paid for the water is irrelevant. A proper business needs a return on the owner's capital every year. Otherwise he'd be better off selling it and investing elsewhere. In fact a good businessmen should base his prices purely on what the fishing is worth.

 

Obviously though you're talking about commercial venues, Ian, and I see where you're coming from.

 

Yes, I agree that some offer poor value for money. However, these will eventually go bust in the same way as many put and take trout fisheries did not so long ago. It's all a question of supply and demand of course. The supply side is increasing as more and more fisheries are created, but the number of anglers is falling.

 

Yes, times are changing. However there are two distinct markets. One is for the traditional style of wild, naturally-stocked waters. The other is for venues where the fish are artificially easy to catch and a lot of peripheral services are offered.

 

It seems that many prefer to fish these commercial venues. Indeed some have never fished any other sort of water. There's nothing wrong with that of course. I've fished commercials in the past myself for big perch, and also taken beginners to them as they're ideal training grounds. They're also useful for testing out new ideas. In general though I prefer more challenging waters.

 

In fact I'm glad most anglers leave the wild waters alone. It means more room for those like me!

Edited August 19, 2006 by Steve Burke