Licenses, Bag Limits, MPAs, SFCs

[The doctor]

Despite the goverments position of power, they want something from RSA's, the tax of a licence which they know they can't police succesfully. I think the RSA position could be stronger if the elected bodies had a mandate from their members that illustrated to the government just what they could lose.

 

 

But what would they lose, experience from the introduction of a FW rod license showed no significant reduction in participation levels and over time the number of anglers fishing increased. You have to consider that the government (DEFRA) are aware of this, and if they get just 50% compliance its a measure well worth them introducing from a financial point of view. I doubt very much whether there would be a wholesale national target of enforcement, I think they would target certain popular areas and use the impacts of that to filter through the ranks. They wouldn't have to go sneaking around remote venues in the wee small hours, thats not cost effective and unlikely to generate much revenue or enforcement. Lets face it if you are a keen angler with top of the range gear worth £400 - £500 are you going to risk losing it for the sake of a £22 rod licence, whether you agree with the principal or not.

[Cranfield]

The 'unelected' representatives are members of the NFSA, BASS, SACN, YALASA, NMC, etc., these are the bodies the government has chosen to deal with as they are the only bodies which have some angling representation. Perhaps you should form the Anti Representative Seaanglers Institute (LOL), representing sea anglers who either don't want to be represented or take an opposing view to the traditional bodies.

 

All of these groups have asked their membership for a greater level of participation, individual members have asked on this forum for anglers to help out by attending meetings, there have been one or two who have offered and then when away from the limelight of the forum, quietly declined. You can only ask, if none stand forward what do these representative orgs. do. Perhaps we should just give up and accept that anglers don't want to be represented, and whilst there are undoubtedly those that do, thats just hard luck because there are a number that don't. I would suggest that those who take a differing or opposing view write to DEFRA stating that is the case and that they wish to be included in the process due to their conflicting views and their wishing these conflicting views to be heard.

I'm sorry Cranfield, you do that when you are negotiating from a position of power (like the government). DEFRA, through the government do not need to offer RSA anything, do you consider it likely that the government will offer RSA anything if we persistently say no to anything and everything. What has been said thus far is that we are opposed, but are prepared to negotiate in the event that there is no option. We negotiate from a reasonably strong position as opposed to here it is take it or leave it. I think personally that is what your own comments amount to.

 

I admire your optimism, where the coal miners, steel workers, fishing industry, car manufacturers and all other industries have failed, you believe that sea anglers will win. With 1.45m voters I still don't think we would be able to shift this government, anglers are spread across the country, and to be honest from what I've seen of the tory manifest wrt sea angling, god help us if they get in.

 

Doc.

 

I am a member of two of the organisations you have mentioned and I have never been asked for my opinion, or to vote in any type of poll, on the matter of a sea fishing licence, or bag limits.

 

Your suggestion that RSA's that don't agree with your methods should form a Anti Representatives group is risible , but typical of the disdain you seem to have for any dissident comments and the patronising way you deal with them.

 

It seems as if you don't believe you are negotiating with people who are prepared to listen and understand the views of RSA's.

If this is the case, I can quite understand your subservient approach.

 

If you have a copy of the " tory manifest wrt sea angling", I would be interested to see it.

We don't want another round of Party Political Propaganda, on behalf of the Labour Party, we have had enough of that from RSA representatives in the past.

Surely you should be apolitical in these matters, it might help your objectivity.

[Holmesy]

But what would they lose, experience from the introduction of a FW rod license showed no significant reduction in participation levels and over time the number of anglers fishing increased. You have to consider that the government (DEFRA) are aware of this, and if they get just 50% compliance its a measure well worth them introducing from a financial point of view. I doubt very much whether there would be a wholesale national target of enforcement, I think they would target certain popular areas and use the impacts of that to filter through the ranks. They wouldn't have to go sneaking around remote venues in the wee small hours, thats not cost effective and unlikely to generate much revenue or enforcement. Lets face it if you are a keen angler with top of the range gear worth £400 - £500 are you going to risk losing it for the sake of a £22 rod licence, whether you agree with the principal or not.

 

I take your point doc but they know they could do much better than 50% with little or no policing by playing ball. I'm not convinced they wouldn't want to negotiate despite knowing they don't have to, but what do I know. I do appreciate people like yourself, Leon, Tom Pinborough etc giving up your time to fight "our" cause.

[Guest challenge]

And therein lies the problem Challenge, there are probably quite a few others like yourself, a number have made that clear on AN. I would take issue with the perception that that is the majority position however. But the crux of the problem is that those who don't want to be represented are the most critical of those representing anglers that do want representation, who do want a voice at the table. If you are not interested in sea anglers having a voice, then why criticise, just ignore it, it doesn't affect you does it.

 

Because you doc, the self appointed representative of the minority want to change the pass time of the majority. Of course we have a right to be critical of that.

 

Quote holmsley

I think therein lies a potential problem. Even when you've determined what the majority of RSA's want, I still don't believe that until you’re an elected representative that it gives any individual the right to negotiate on behalf of another.

 

I totally agree, if the doc was a democratically elected representative. Then he would stand out from the undemocratically elected commercial representative that he was to sit with. The commercials representation was elected by the unelected and not by the workforce they are suppose to represent.

Quote carnfield

3.30 There was support both from the angling sector and other respondents

for proposals in respect of “bag limits” and a chargeable licensing

scheme for angling."

The point remains; this is the relevant extract from the Defra "Summary of responses".

I don't see a lot of qualifications attached to that statement.

That is Defra's interpretation ................worrying isn't it.

It’s very worrying.

But we are told to be quite.

Edited October 23, 2006 by challenge

[Ian Burrett]

Perhaps you should form the Anti Representative Seaanglers Institute (LOL),

 

 

 

Doc.

 

I would just leave it as Anti Representataive Sea Anglers or ARSE for short, becuase it my opinion that's what most of the antis are talking out off.

[glennk]

ARSA

 

Its spanish for arse.

[The doctor]

I am a member of two of the organisations you have mentioned and I have never been asked for my opinion, or to vote in any type of poll, on the matter of a sea fishing licence, or bag limits.

 

When the document is finalised, the membership will be asked to give their opinion, this will form the basis of how the various bodies proceed, irrespective of how the reps feel, it is the members who will determine whether the recommendations are acceptable or not.

 

Your suggestion that RSA's that don't agree with your methods should form a Anti Representatives group is risible , but typical of the disdain you seem to have for any dissident comments and the patronising way you deal with them.

 

Why is it laughable, if there are those with alternative views then they should make themselves known, beating any group with a big stick that may not share your views is repression, not progression. I would welcome others entering the arena, sea angling is a diverse sport with many diverse views. the problem is that many are asked but very few are prepared to put themselves out, it is afterall easier to sit at a computer and criticise. I think after all the s***e that has been aimed at the present sea angling reps, a small amount of jollity is acceptable, unless of course you happen to believe that some people are of such importance that they can throw it, but not receive it.

 

I will however, take you to task for your generalisations on how I allegedly always show contempt for anyone with alternative views (please show examples to support your accusations).

 

It seems as if you don't believe you are negotiating with people who are prepared to listen and understand the views of RSA's.

If this is the case, I can quite understand your subservient approach.

 

I have to say that whilst your views are your own, and you are free to make them, the snidey little remarks with which you try to make your point probably show your true colours (you accuse me of risible comments, of disdain, being patronising, subservient and biased all in a few sentences). Yet your whole post is quite obviously a veiled attack on someone who has a different perspective.

 

If you have a copy of the " tory manifest wrt sea angling", I would be interested to see it.

We don't want another round of Party Political Propaganda, on behalf of the Labour Party, we have had enough of that from RSA representatives in the past.

Surely you should be apolitical in these matters, it might help your objectivity.

 

If you knew me you would know that I am neither a supporter of the labour party or the Conservatives, or anyone else to that end, I choose not to vote, not because I don't like any particular party, but because my local candidates are not to my liking (my local MP is John Prescott). When I have a local candidate that I feel I would like to vote for I will. I vote for a candidate, not a party, if thats not being apolitical then I don't know what is. You don't know me so I suggest you save your personal attacks for someone you do know if thats what 'turns you on'.

 

I would suggest you find the Tory manidfest yourself.

 

 

Doc.

[captain cojones]

ARSA

 

Its spanish for arse.

nahh its culo that is spanish for ass glenn!!

[steve good]

What are guys like, can you not see things for what they.

 

You can bitch and moan and groan at each other and commercial fishermen but what good will it do.

 

The fact is we are all on a sinking ship, going down together anglers and commercials and there is nothing that can be done to stop it ,it is only a case of when.

 

When the winds in the east the fish bite least, that east wind blows from Brussels and brings the CFP and all the mis-management that ,that implies.

 

You cannot stop or control something that is out of control.

 

They say rats on a sinking ship fight each other that may be true.

 

Just enjoy your fishing while it lasts, no need to fight, the water will be up to neck before you know it.

 

Regards Steve

[mr motorola]

What are guys like, can you not see things for what they.

 

You can bitch and moan and groan at each other and commercial fishermen but what good will it do.

 

The fact is we are all on a sinking ship, going down together anglers and commercials and there is nothing that can be done to stop it ,it is only a case of when.

 

When the winds in the east the fish bite least, that east wind blows from Brussels and brings the CFP and all the mis-management that ,that implies.

 

You cannot stop or control something that is out of control.

 

They say rats on a sinking ship fight each other that may be true.

 

Just enjoy your fishing while it lasts, no need to fight, the water will be up to neck before you know it.

 

Regards Steve

My sentiments exactly steve , but i think some people may be too engrossed in their own little crusades!!!

 

Excellent post all the same , i'm with you!!!!