AN ADVERT IN A NATIONAL NEWSPAPER TO LET ANGLERS KNOW WHATS GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENCES

[barry luxton]

Barry,

 

The issue of bag limits on bass isn't a long time in the future, the SFCs are discussing it and coming to decisions now. (The figures I've heard is for a 5 fish per day bag limit, unfortunately that will seem reasonable to a lot of people, but once the principle is established, it could so easily be reduced in future and/or extended to other species).

 

That's why it's important now for anglers to understand the issues, and to make representations to the SFCs, and if possible get along to the SFC meetings to demonstrate concern.

 

Bag limits are acceptable to many, especially those who have seen 'slaughter' of bass (and other fish) by the plastic bag/plastic dustbin brigade, but anglers shouldn't allow restrictions to be imposed, at least not without them being part of a wider conservation package that will mean that there will be more and bigger fish in future.

 

Please take time to wade through the issues at:

 

http://www.sacn.org.uk/Conservation-and-Po...or_Anglers.html

 

and take some action to ensure that bag limits are not applied without being part of a worthwhile conservation package.

 

Many thanks for the information Leon. I have read this item a few times and this one in particular makes me bl....dy furious, this is where we have faceless men in suits saying to us: time scales too long? they want to do something about this issue of bag limits now. Both you and i know this has nothing to do with fish preservation. Who are these people?

 

What the heck has the welsh assembley got to do with the uk bass fish stocks? I don't want them dictating to us. Defra, who i assume bradshaw is the governer cannot get his own pressing, urgent problems in order, i.e. the lack of fish stock in the north sea for starters. Why therefore should they be pressing for a meaningless bit of dictate that would be hard to enforce and cost us rate payers even more money? If they have a local problem with selling then it's down to them to sort it, not restrict the whole of the uk rsa.

 

There is a vast difference between a rsa angler and non-licenced fishing boats, why are we lumped in with the black economy, to suit commercial ideals no doubt. It may well be the case that getting rid of the black fishing economy has a difference to the fish stock but all ready in place defra has the means to do this by better enforcement, again they ought to be spending our money better than comming out with a lot more tripe. By getting rid of the black economy it would increase the value of commercial selling, fine, but what if part of the problem is commercial selling under the counter to avoid tax etc. The mechanics are inplace for this more so than individuall rsa .I know this has gone the rounds but they didn't have the balls to set a decent mls for the bass, apparently the welsh even less? to say that this proposal would have more effect is just unbeleivable, do they think we are all stupid.

 

I have looked at your proposal to issue self enforcement gill tags Leon, but no doubt that would be too simplistic for the men in suits, again bless em. We will look at limits if commercial accept all bass to be caught by rod and line only. Apparently gurnsey sf do a lot of it.

 

cheers barry

 

my mothers welsh.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Not being funny Ken but i am getting a bit fed up with being classed as an apathetic rsa. It is not only you mate. I consider that the vast majority are very passionate and do care about their sport as i am, at the end of the day however that is what it is, a sport. A lot of the guys i imagine do not have the time or want to get invloved and why should they, it does not need to be pushed down their throats. I would add however that in this age of the internet it is easy for the rsa to make their view known and count.

 

I see your point Barry and in days gone by it worked a treat, I used to grab my fork and do a bit of bait digging, gather up my tackle and go fishing without a care in the world, pure heaven.

 

But all of that is now in serious danger from over exploitation and legislation, my days down here are well numbered but I would like to think when I pop my clogs the grand children of all future generations have a choice to go fishing and have something to catch.

 

We are the ones who will shape that future so apathy is not an option; all of those who want to go and dangle a line without a thought for the future are not doing anyone a favour including themselves.

 

If angling is such a great sport then it is worth a bit of input to save it from annihilation.

 

I used to fish Cefyn Sidan surf beach some times three or four visits per week now I and other RSAs have been banned from taking our vehicles onto the beach which is over twelve miles long with only one access point. This ban came about because of abuse by the commercial cocklers, the sad part is I have been fighting an eighteen month battle without any support to regain access, had all the RSAs who used that beach joined the battle I am sure that we would have succeeded in gaining access once again.

 

The same sort of thing is now happening on a national scale and it will be interesting to see just how many of those who love their sport will have a shout before it is to late.

[barry luxton]

I see your point Barry and in days gone by it worked a treat, I used to grab my fork and do a bit of bait digging, gather up my tackle and go fishing without a care in the world, pure heaven.

 

But all of that is now in serious danger from over exploitation and legislation, my days down here are well numbered but I would like to think when I pop my clogs the grand children of all future generations have a choice to go fishing and have something to catch.

 

We are the ones who will shape that future so apathy is not an option; all of those who want to go and dangle a line without a thought for the future are not doing anyone a favour including themselves.

 

If angling is such a great sport then it is worth a bit of input to save it from annihilation.

 

I used to fish Cefyn Sidan surf beach some times three or four visits per week now I and other RSAs have been banned from taking our vehicles onto the beach which is over twelve miles long with only one access point. This ban came about because of abuse by the commercial cocklers, the sad part is I have been fighting an eighteen month battle without any support to regain access, had all the RSAs who used that beach joined the battle I am sure that we would have succeeded in gaining access once again.

 

The same sort of thing is now happening on a national scale and it will be interesting to see just how many of those who love their sport will have a shout before it is to late.

 

 

Thanks for that Ken. In your case all that is required is someone in suits obviously to have a little bit of common sence to see that by banning all, in most cases innocent people,they are creating a socity of resentment. Go one Ken have a go at the local council again!

Off topic, i have lived in my house for over twenty years and i had a bus stop shelter adjacent to my front drive. It had not been a bus route for years, so i asked for it to be removed, despite loads of correspondance, nothing. It was only when the council awarded themselves planning for a newer and larger one as they demolished the old one and started to build the new one i placed myself in the way of construction. Despite threat of arrest i would not move and forced them to attend a site meeting where they agreed it was not required. The only reason for it was money, they made it advertising that blocked my sight of the on comming traffic from me, sucsess. Mind you it was to do with adverts so it's in topic.

cheers barry

Edited December 27, 2006 by barry luxton

[Leon Roskilly]

The same sort of thing is now happening on a national scale and it will be interesting to see just how many of those who love their sport will have a shout before it is to late.

 

 

It's more than national, it's international.

 

The problem is that most of us have only our own back yard to compare change with, and we only know how things once were, and fear how the future might change what we have left.

 

But those fortunate enough to be able to travel extensively, and fish in other places, tell stories of managed Recreational Sea Fisheries, very different to what we can experience now in our particular back yards.

 

Of course the locals will always have their own moans and grumbles, that not enough is being done, that there are too many risks being taken.

 

That is human nature and will never change.

 

Who would not want to step into a time machine and be able to fish local marks as they were 30, 40, 50 years ago.

 

But if we were able to make that journey, few fishing then would be extolling how wonderful the fishing was, just taking it for granted, and wishing they had something better (well at 63 years old, having lived and fished in other parts of the world that's how I remember it!)

 

Anyway, what we once had, what is still available in well-managed Recreational Sea Fisheries overseas, we could have - but not without change.

 

Think of the places that you would like to visit and fish, not because the modern world hasn't caught up with them yet, but because the value of their Recreational Sea Fisheries have been recognised and developed.

 

And think how we could have some of that here.

 

In UK waters there is such a variety of species, and species with sporting potential, that it is only the way that our sea fisheries (in particular our Recreational Sea Fisheries) are being manged that prevents that potential being delivered to Uk Recreational Sea Anglers.

 

 

'Recreational Sea Fisheries' see how the very phrase is novel, how foreign it sounds, a phrase that those managing our sea fisheries are not at all familiar with.

 

The Recreational Bass Fishery, the Recreational Mullet Fishery, the Recreational Sea Fisheries of the North East.

 

Our Recreational Tope Fishery, the Recreational flounder fishery, and the important Recreational Cod Fishery.

 

The Recreational fisheries of the South West that support the important Leisure and Tourism sectors of that region, and in some cases are the a lynch-pin of the summer tourist trade.

 

Getting those with real influence, and those with real power, to recognise that the UK even has Recreational Sea Fisheries, and the huge potential should they be developed is the really hard bit.

 

Getting proper management in place is merely difficult, but the models are out there.

 

The New Zealand Recreational King Fish Fishery, the Australian Barrumundi Recreational Fishery, the USA Recreational Striped Bass fishery, none of these (and many others) came about not by accident, but by proper management and yes, regulation too.

 

But only once their value and their potential had been recognised.

 

The UK is only at the very start of that, with Europe lagging behind.

 

But there is really no good reason at all why the UK cannot have world class Recreational Sea Fisheries of its very own, if the vision, the courage, the commitment and the will is there to bring it about.

 

Maybe rather than going 30 years back into the past, it would be better to go x years into the future if you really want some really decent fishing right on your back door!

[barry luxton]

It's more than national, it's international.

 

The problem is that most of us have only our own back yard to compare change with, and we only know how things once were, and fear how the future might change what we have left.

 

Anyway, what we once had, what is still available in well-managed Recreational Sea Fisheries overseas, we could have - but not without change.

 

Think of the places that you would like to visit and fish, not because the modern world hasn't caught up with them yet, but because the value of their Recreational Sea Fisheries have been recognised and developed.

 

And think how we could have some of that here.

 

But there is really no good reason at all why the UK cannot have world class Recreational Sea Fisheries of its very own, if the vision, the courage, the commitment and the will is there to bring it about.

 

Maybe rather than going 30 years back into the past, it would be better to go x years into the future if you really want some really decent fishing right on your back door!

 

Yes you are right leon, it is international, as far out to the eu i would say. I have to go back twenty years again to say we had a brilliant cod, not codling fishery on our door step called the varne bank. I don't care what the likes of wurzel say's it was fished out and has never had the opportunity to recover. That was and still is the eu policy. I'm not concerned about change for that area as it can't get any worse unless they remove all the year class fish as well. You tell me in all honesty what you would consider to be the right course of action for this area? Don't tell me to come and listen to whatever meeting etc as that in my books is not acceptable, if that is the only way forward then i can say that it will happen, never. You also cannot say it's the apathy of the rsa, again it is and still is the eu policy that controls it.

Edited December 27, 2006 by barry luxton

[Steve Coppolo]

And think how we could have some of that here.

 

In UK waters there is such a variety of species, and species with sporting potential, that it is only the way that our sea fisheries (in particular our Recreational Sea Fisheries) are being manged that prevents that potential being delivered to Uk Recreational Sea Anglers.

'Recreational Sea Fisheries' see how the very phrase is novel, how foreign it sounds, a phrase that those managing our sea fisheries are not at all familiar with.

 

The Recreational Bass Fishery, the Recreational Mullet Fishery, the Recreational Sea Fisheries of the North East.

 

Our Recreational Tope Fishery, the Recreational flounder fishery, and the important Recreational Cod Fishery.

 

The Recreational fisheries of the South West that support the important Leisure and Tourism sectors of that region, and in some cases are the a lynch-pin of the summer tourist trade.

 

Getting those with real influence, and those with real power, to recognise that the UK even has Recreational Sea Fisheries, and the huge potential should they be developed is the really hard bit.

 

Getting proper management in place is merely difficult, but the models are out there.

 

The New Zealand Recreational King Fish Fishery, the Australian Barrumundi Recreational Fishery, the USA Recreational Striped Bass fishery, none of these (and many others) came about not by accident, but by proper management and yes, regulation too.

 

But only once their value and their potential had been recognised.

 

The UK is only at the very start of that, with Europe lagging behind.

 

But there is really no good reason at all why the UK cannot have world class Recreational Sea Fisheries of its very own, if the vision, the courage, the commitment and the will is there to bring it about.

 

Maybe rather than going 30 years back into the past, it would be better to go x years into the future if you really want some really decent fishing right on your back door!

 

Do you really still believe all that Leon? I used to believe it once, but I've since faced up to a few facts.

 

This is rip off Britain where our governments, especially the current one, take and take and take, but give nothing in return. This is where we pay 80% tax on fuel, road tax, congestion charge, and yet have to put up with a crumbling road infrastructure, grid lock and a useless public transport system. This is where our health service can't look after us properly and often people leave hospitals more ill than when they went in, and our schools can't educate our children. This is where the police can't catch criminals and when they do manage it, the courts won't prosecute. This is where the criminal has more rights than the victim of his crimes. This is where our prime minister lies to the house of commons, and the population of Britain, in order to lead us into war.

 

This is also where the commercial fishing industry actually costs the country money, yet it is able to stop sensible conservation measures to ensure a viable future for fish stocks, (bass MLS), by screaming "livelihoods". And you still think that we can end up with a world class recreational fishery?

 

This isn't the USA, New Zealand or Australia. This is rip off, crumbling, skint, dishonest and f*cked up Britain.

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Do you really still believe all that Leon? I used to believe it once, but I've since faced up to a few facts.

 

This is rip off Britain where our governments, especially the current one, take and take and take, but give nothing in return. This is where we pay 80% tax on fuel, road tax, congestion charge, and yet have to put up with a crumbling road infrastructure, grid lock and a useless public transport system. This is where our health service can't look after us properly and often people leave hospitals more ill than when they went in, and our schools can't educate our children. This is where the police can't catch criminals and when they do manage it, the courts won't prosecute. This is where the criminal has more rights than the victim of his crimes. This is where our prime minister lies to the house of commons, and the population of Britain, in order to lead us into war.

 

This is also where the commercial fishing industry actually costs the country money, yet it is able to stop sensible conservation measures to ensure a viable future for fish stocks, (bass MLS), by screaming "livelihoods". And you still think that we can end up with a world class recreational fishery?

 

This isn't the USA, New Zealand or Australia. This is rip off, crumbling, skint, dishonest and f*cked up Britain.

 

The reason the bass mls failed was a lack of support and some angling bodies in the south west actually coming out against it.

 

That was the point I made earlier on this thread, out of two million RSAs just over a thousand got involved and that is the reason it went down the drain. On reflection people like us should have made more effort to involve others, a simple petition circulated amongst not only anglers but anyone who would sign, the more names the greater the weight. If a thousand had got one hundred voters that would have been a wake up call.

 

I just hope we can do better on future issues.

 

Off topic, i have lived in my house for over twenty years and i had a bus stop shelter adjacent to my front drive. It had not been a bus route for years, so i asked for it to be removed, despite loads of correspondance, nothing. It was only when the council awarded themselves planning for a newer and larger one as they demolished the old one and started to build the new one i placed myself in the way of construction. Despite threat of arrest i would not move and forced them to attend a site meeting where they agreed it was not required. The only reason for it was money, they made it advertising that blocked my sight of the on comming traffic from me, sucsess. Mind you it was to do with adverts so it's in topic.

cheers barry

 

That's something we have in common Barry I have a bloody bus stop outside my garden center with a bus station forty yards down the road, I am in the process of getting it removed. Sorry that was a bit of thread.

[Steve Coppolo]

The reason the bass mls failed was a lack of support and some angling bodies in the south west actually coming out against it.

 

I'm not so sure Ken, I think their response was used to justify what they had already decided.

[Leon Roskilly]

Do you really still believe all that Leon? I used to believe it once, but I've since faced up to a few facts.

 

 

Take anywhere in the world, and depending upon your point of view it could be a good place to be or a bad place to be.

 

Happy people with a positive outlook can live in the same street as miseries who see all as doom and gloom.

 

The 'happies' choose to read different newspapers, follow different events, mix with different people than the 'saddies' do.

 

 

Not in anyway criticisng you Steve, it's the way people are.

 

 

My father was one who could only see the world in a negative light, preferring to moan about things rather than actually try and change things.

 

"What is the point?", He'd say. "Everyone's just out for themselves"

 

So many reasons why it wasn't worth the bother, why nothing would ever change.

 

 

 

Although we lived in the same house, our world's were very different.

 

I'd be mixing with people who thought like me ,that things could be changed, and we'd set about changing them, not always as much as we liked, but we thought for the better.

 

We take pedestrianised shopping areas for granted now.

 

Back in the seventies I was helping to chain off Oxford Street, bringing the traffic to a halt. We got the cars off Oxford street (but unfortunately not the buses and taxis), and that movement grew as more and more people demanded pedestrianised and safe shopping streets.

 

An East London council refused to put in a zebra crossing so that the kids in a tower block could safely cross a busy road to the Recreation Ground on the other side.

 

So we made our own and backed up the rush hour traffic as far back as could be seen from the top of the tower block.

 

And we got our pedestrian crossing.

 

 

And lots of other examples where I've seen people come together to bring about change that was resisted.

 

 

And I've seen massive changes over the years, in attitudes in events, all because people put in the effort to bring that change about.

 

But I've also seen people trying to fight causes that had no hope, and wasting valuable years.

 

And I hope that I've learned to recognise to put my time into not only what I believe is right, but what is achievable, but always aiming higher than I expect to reach.

 

 

I'm getting on now, my health and life won't last forever, and the number of fishable tides left to me reduces with the passing of every day.

 

Believe me, if I no longer believe that anything worthwhile was achievable through campaigning for better Recreational Sea Fisheries around these islands, I'd give up tomorrow and go fishing instead (probably somewhere else where they've learned to do it right).

 

But I don't believe for a moment that it's a lost cause.

 

 

Yes, we won't win every objective, and will often take 5 steps forward and be forced back 4, just as we think it's all coming together.

 

But we are moving down that road, and some of the goals we need to attain, though still too far away, are closer now.

 

And looking back 5 years I wouldn't have put a penny on half of what we have achieved so far, in building the foundations for the delivery of real benefits as we move further down the road.

 

 

 

I first took a rod into my hand at age 7, and fishing has been a part of my life ever since; freshwater, saltwater, in tropical places and through the ice, for fish that never grow more than a few ounces and for those where 100lb is considered small.

 

I've intimately shared my love of fishing with hundreds of others, and it's something that has bought purpose and joy into my life, even when I've been hungry, or not known which direction my shattered life would be headed next.

 

 

I feel that I owe the sport something, and in particular I owe the seven year olds of today, picking up a rod for the first time, the type of fishing that I once was able to enjoy, because it's possible.

 

But even so, if I didn't believe that was possible (I didn't say certain!), I'd be out of here, fishing instead of doing this.

 

 

Yes Steve, in the world that I live in, I do believe it's possible to bring that about.

 

The fact that I'm putting in the effort attests to that.

Edited December 28, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[glennk]

Hi Leon,

 

Is it possible for me to view the open address list of sacn members somewhere on your site ?