Apathy rules yet again

[Guest tigger]

poledark, i couldnt disagree with you more,

The simple fact is that otters have have been a part of the british fauna for longer than us, but because modern humans want big barbel, the otter must be controlled? Quite honestly, id love to see more otters on our waterways, they are a fantastic creature that should be respected as much as the next, because they eat fish....our quarry makes no difference at all, and there is a difference, you (we) fish for mere amusement, the otter goes fishing to survive....which is the most valid?

 

[Steve Walker]

There is no point getting worked up about otters, I'm afraid. If we come to the conclusion that anglers and otters are incompatible, we all know damn well which species the general public would rather be rid of. We just aren't cute enough. I don't think that the argument that the return of the otter will inhibit the keeping of freakishly large barbel for repeated recapture by exclusive syndicates will gather much sympathy. They might be better off getting these people to build them an artificial indoor river in which to fatten their pet fish in a perfectly controlled environment

 

Even if the otter were likely to drive the barbel to extinction (which it isn't) I think the public support would be for whiskers + fur, not whiskers + scales. In terms of conservation, the barbel occupies a very much larger part of England's river systems than its natural range; they are not indigenous to the Western flowing rivers, but are now present in most of the rivers of the Severn and Mersey catchments.

 

Personally, I'd rather fish in a river with otters, kingfishers and herons, even if fewer fish making it to old age meant that a barbel of a lifetime was closer to 10lb than to 20lb. Does weight really matter? Was the last captor of the Traveller any more delighted than the captor of the 13lb12oz barbel record of 1962?

[gozzer]

Sir, my fortune has answered my desires, and my purpose is to bestow a day or two in helping to destroy some of those villainous vermin, for I hate them perfectly, because they love fish so well, or rather, because they destroy so much; indeed so much, that in my judgment, all men that keep otter-dogs, ought to have pensions from the King to encourage them to destroy the breed of these base otters, they do so much mischief. .....

 

......I am, sir, a brother of the angle, and therefore an enemy to the otter: for you are to note, that we anglers all love one another, and therefore do I hate the otter both for my own and for their sakes who are of my brotherhood.

 

Izaak

 

Sir, methinks that your name is not Walton, but the other Isaac, namely NEWTon. As such, you exaggerate the GRAVITY of the otter situation in England.

 

John......(also a brother of the angle, and hold no hatred for the otter)

[peter mccue]

There is no point getting worked up about otters, I'm afraid. If we come to the conclusion that anglers and otters are incompatible, we all know damn well which species the general public would rather be rid of. We just aren't cute enough. I don't think that the argument that the return of the otter will inhibit the keeping of freakishly large barbel for repeated recapture by exclusive syndicates will gather much sympathy. They might be better off getting these people to build them an artificial indoor river in which to fatten their pet fish in a perfectly controlled environment

 

Even if the otter were likely to drive the barbel to extinction (which it isn't) I think the public support would be for whiskers + fur, not whiskers + scales. In terms of conservation, the barbel occupies a very much larger part of England's river systems than its natural range; they are not indigenous to the Western flowing rivers, but are now present in most of the rivers of the Severn and Mersey catchments.

 

Personally, I'd rather fish in a river with otters, kingfishers and herons, even if fewer fish making it to old age meant that a barbel of a lifetime was closer to 10lb than to 20lb. Does weight really matter? Was the last captor of the Traveller any more delighted than the captor of the 13lb12oz barbel record of 1962?

 

Well said Steve, your post was a blast of common sense in a thread reeking of self interest.

 

There is surely no angler here who does not believe that otters can conflict with angling, but to air those concerns in such a selfish manner, as is being done here worries me. In a media driven world this is a gift to those who oppose angling. Come on guys this is an extremely narrow minded attitude.

[Brian Carragher]

Ditto to the above

[Vagabond]

Well said Steve, your post was a blast of common sense

 

True, and the irony is that the description of the barbel carcase on the AT website is more consistent with death by old age/repeated recapture stress, followed by rat scavenging.

 

AT claims the fish was killed by mink - but everyone has jumped on an otter bandwagon.

 

What evidence is there that an otter was responsible ??

 

I'll tell you a tale about "evidence"

 

Many years ago whilst fishing a seatrout voe in the Shetlands, I witnessed a sheep stumble in some rocks and sustain a broken leg. That immediately attracted the attention of Great Black-backed Gull. The Gull killed the sheep by attacking the brain through the eye socket (I couldn't stop it, I was on the wrong side of the voe) When the gull had feasted, it flew off. Soon a Great Skua (Bonxie) perched on the sheep and also extracted a meal, then that too flew off, and a Raven came in feed in its turn. All this in the space of half an hour. A boy and his dog turned up, the dog spooked the Raven, the boy examined the (still warm) sheep and went off home, no doubt to tell his father that a Raven had killed one of their sheep.

Edited December 30, 2006 by Vagabond

[Charlie Bettell]

The difference between otter, heron, kingfisher, grebe, osprey, stoat, weasel, mink, etc, is the otter is the more likely of all the creatures mentioned to take a bait intended for pike.

 

There is nothing selfish about my argument - I simply don't want to be put in a position where I will inevitably have to deal with a hooked otter - and possibly end up killing one due to deep hooking.

 

Should the above happen, I would be absolutely gutted!!

 

Q: What are the chances of the above happening?

 

A: Quite high where otters have been re-introduced to areas of water where pike anglers have fished for some years - otter free!!

[Barry C]

If there is any chance that overfishing (persicusion) of the traveller paid a contributory part in her death then I hope the few privilaged anglers at greenmire take particular note.

 

Barry C

[mark barrett]

The difference between otter, heron, kingfisher, grebe, osprey, stoat, weasel, mink, etc, is the otter is the more likely of all the creatures mentioned to take a bait intended for pike.

 

There is nothing selfish about my argument - I simply don't want to be put in a position where I will inevitably have to deal with a hooked otter - and possibly end up killing one due to deep hooking.

 

Should the above happen, I would be absolutely gutted!!

 

Q: What are the chances of the above happening?

 

A: Quite high where otters have been re-introduced to areas of water where pike anglers have fished for some years - otter free!!

 

but the difference is charlie, that the otter has to fish to live, and only has a limited choice as to where it can fish.

you do not and have a wide choice.

the otter has every right to be there, in natural numbers, personally i wouldnt care about losing the odd fish here and there.

 

the other thing is though charlie, if you used your current line of argument with a naturalist, there would be one simple answer, well in that case we will cease your fishing on there.

[Cranfield]

The difference between otter, heron, kingfisher, grebe, osprey, stoat, weasel, mink, etc, is the otter is the more likely of all the creatures mentioned to take a bait intended for pike.

 

There is nothing selfish about my argument - I simply don't want to be put in a position where I will inevitably have to deal with a hooked otter - and possibly end up killing one due to deep hooking.

 

Should the above happen, I would be absolutely gutted!!

 

Q: What are the chances of the above happening?

 

A: Quite high where otters have been re-introduced to areas of water where pike anglers have fished for some years - otter free!!

 

Otters have been around for very many years, as have pike anglers using live, or dead, baits and lures.

 

I have also been around for some long time and I can't recall hearing a single incident of a pike angler hooking an otter, so it can't have been a very common occurrence.

 

Methinks, this is another case of vested interests shouting before they are bitten.