Kent and Essex SFC & bag limits on anglers

[steve pitts]

Steve I have set up an area of my website dedicated to opposing this crap. I've number 1 spot in google for the search term sea angling strategy , and recreational sea angling strategy - hopefully we can get a differing point of view out there and let them know not everyone is in favour. If you want me to add any pages detailing your opposition to this just write it and email it to me - Ill do the rest.

 

Cheers - Glenn

 

Fact is Glenn (and what I've tried to come to terms with over the past week or two) that I personally couldn't give a toss about whether I am restricted to 5 bass per day or not. It won't affect me directly, in terms of the numbers of fish that I take home because these days I only ever take a maximum of one at any time. I think that the most I have taken in 25 years of bass fishing is 3 and I haven't killed a bass in the past 2 seasons.

But that doesn't mean that if someone else opposes bag limits, that I wouldn't support them or that I think that the freedom to retain fish should be sacrificed by anglers, purely to gain some sort of trade-off on the political merry-go-round of fisheries management.

 

It's not that I feel that bass are too precious to kill or some other 'bass hugger' reason. Just that I personally prefer to release the majority of the fish that I catch, but I respect the rights of those who want to take fish, as long as they do so in moderation.

 

I'll freely admit that pictures of heaps of dead fish do nothing for me, in fact I sometimes feel very saddened by shots of tiny fish laid out along a pier or breakwater.

I feel sad because that is all that there is to catch for most people and I feel sad that they feel some acheivement in catching fish that are so small, when bigger fish used to be available. They haven't experienced the bigger fish that used to be around to make fishing really worthwhile.

But that is my personal view and I don't expect anyone else to see it this way.

 

I live in Bristol (not Essex) - less that 15 minutes from the Bristol Channel, which used to be a wonderful winter cod venue, with 20 and 30lb cod available from the shore.

Codling of 2 -3lb are now the mainstay and the odd biggie still turns up, but it is a shadow of what it used to be - but that's cod fishing all over I guess.

I don't bother now, but thousands still get enjoyment out of it and good luck to them.

 

I haven't changed my views about the BMP - I still think that it offers a serious set of management proposals for bass and I will continue to support BASS in its efforts to enlighted the fisheries management regime in the UK and Europe towards managing the species that are important to anglers.

 

I've rambled on as usual - sorry about that.

 

Cheers

Steve

[Steve Coppolo]

Hi Glenn

I still think the BMP is excellent, but only if it is implemented in full. What DEFRA are trying to do is take bits and pieces of it and make it work to their advantage. That will never work. I am completely opposed to bag limits as proposed by DEFRA, SFC's, and the sea angling strategy, but if they were implemented as part of the BMP, in full, then I would support them for Bass.

 

Got to dash now but I'll be happy to go into more details tomorrow.

[barry luxton]

Fact is Glenn (and what I've tried to come to terms with over the past week or two) that I personally couldn't give a toss about whether I am restricted to 5 bass per day or not. It won't affect me directly, in terms of the numbers of fish that I take home because these days I only ever take a maximum of one at any time. I think that the most I have taken in 25 years of bass fishing is 3 and I haven't killed a bass in the past 2 seasons.

But that doesn't mean that if someone else opposes bag limits, that I wouldn't support them or that I think that the freedom to retain fish should be sacrificed by anglers, purely to gain some sort of trade-off on the political merry-go-round of fisheries management.

 

It's not that I feel that bass are too precious to kill or some other 'bass hugger' reason. Just that I personally prefer to release the majority of the fish that I catch, but I respect the rights of those who want to take fish, as long as they do so in moderation.

 

I'll freely admit that pictures of heaps of dead fish do nothing for me, in fact I sometimes feel very saddened by shots of tiny fish laid out along a pier or breakwater.

I feel sad because that is all that there is to catch for most people and I feel sad that they feel some acheivement in catching fish that are so small, when bigger fish used to be available. They haven't experienced the bigger fish that used to be around to make fishing really worthwhile.

But that is my personal view and I don't expect anyone else to see it this way.

 

I live in Bristol (not Essex) - less that 15 minutes from the Bristol Channel, which used to be a wonderful winter cod venue, with 20 and 30lb cod available from the shore.

Codling of 2 -3lb are now the mainstay and the odd biggie still turns up, but it is a shadow of what it used to be - but that's cod fishing all over I guess.

I don't bother now, but thousands still get enjoyment out of it and good luck to them.

 

I haven't changed my views about the BMP - I still think that it offers a serious set of management proposals for bass and I will continue to support BASS in its efforts to enlighted the fisheries management regime in the UK and Europe towards managing the species that are important to anglers.

 

I've rambled on as usual - sorry about that.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

Thank for for a very good post. Your situation is a mirror image of my situation at the top end of the channel. I to prefer to let the bass go and also the small codling in the hope that they could grow to something worthwhile. I prefer to take a mackeral home rather than a bass but i do not want restrictions imposed on me for fish preservation when we all know that it is not the true rsa that causes the lack or size of the fish stocks. I can fish elsewhere but i still fish the top end of the channel in winter in the hope of catching a biggie. During the summer we have great sport competing with the french boats again at the top end of the channel, fishing for the wreck bass. When it all goes well we would be very happy to catch six in one trip. It could happen once or twice a year. That would be classed as a good day, how could they possibly restrict that. I think it's all about control and power. They want it over you.

[Ian Burrett]

if the SCIENCE suggests that a bag limit would benefit the stock.

Bugger the economics of it, or the fact that this would effect a majority stakeholder, or their rights - SCIENCE will drive the requirements apparently.

 

 

Cheers

Steve

 

Hi Steve

 

You have more faith than me if you think the science will have any influence on stock management decisions, from either the eu or Defra

 

The science has suggested for four years that an immediate ban on cod fishing is necessary and SOS with the shark Alliance put forward a good scientific case for a zero catch on Porbeagles and Spurdog, which was backed by the FAO, ICES and CITES. All were ignored at last Decembers Eu meetings.

CFP conservation is all about damage limitation to commercial jobs, with little thought to the needs of the fish stocks.

 

Defras thinking is changing in regards to the elasmobranches but for any real effective conservation then the mindset of the eu has to change.

[steve pitts]

Hi Steve

 

You have more faith than me if you think the science will have any influence on stock management decisions, from either the eu or Defra

 

The science has suggested for four years that an immediate ban on cod fishing is necessary and SOS with the shark Alliance put forward a good scientific case for a zero catch on Porbeagles and Spurdog, which was backed by the FAO, ICES and CITES. All were ignored at last Decembers Eu meetings.

CFP conservation is all about damage limitation to commercial jobs, with little thought to the needs of the fish stocks.

 

Defras thinking is changing in regards to the elasmobranches but for any real effective conservation then the mindset of the eu has to change.

 

Hi Ian

 

I'm as sceptical as you (and many others) when it comes to the track record of Defra and DG Fish on acting on the advice of science.

It just seems to me very convenient that they suggest in the RSA strategy that science will drive the direction of the decision making process wrt species important to anglers. We have seen the science being as good as ignored during the consultation on the bass MLS.

 

CEFAS clearly stated in the impact assesment that an MLS of 45cm would provide the optimum benefit for all stakeholders - so why was this not implimented straight away, but delayed until 2010 (if it happens at all)?

I think we all know the answer to that one.

 

At least the science was acknowledged wrt most of the benefits of any management measures accruing mainly to the UK, due to changes in bass distribution and migration paterns - It's just a shame that the UK will only benefit from juvenile 40cm bass, rather than mature fish of 45cm.

 

Cheers

Steve

[steve good]

Hi Glenn

 

Don't forget, that Defra and WAG are talking here specifically about bass - not cod, or wrasse, or mackerel, pout, or whiting, or any other species - at the moment.

 

They are claiming that imposing a bag limit of 5 fish per day per person will allow them and fisheries protection agencies to differenciate between genuine anglers and unlicenced commercials who catch boxes of bass and sell them through the back door.

 

Personally - I can see the logic in this, because if a couple of cowboys in a powered vessel land dozens of bass into a harbour, with the intention of selling them on, at the moment, unless they are caught in the act of selling them, they can claim that they are anglers and not breaking any of the rules what-so-ever. They are untouchable.

What I can't see the logic in, is saying that this is a conservation tool when zero restrictions on gill netting and commercial rod and lining are being proposed. This is a market protection exercise - plain and simple.

 

Toerags comment about bass being cleared out from local marks is true in many instances around the South coast and some areas of Wales. Unlicenced commercial rod and liners can be very efficient and are capable of severely impacting on local stocks. Areas have been decimated of good numbers of bass for long periods of time.

 

The only 'scientific' statement which appears to be accepted by some is that bass stocks are currently being fished 'sustainably' and this is used as justification for doing nothing to enhance the bass populations.

What this one word doesn't portray is the undeniable fact that the breeding stocks of bass are dwindling and medium sized fish of 4lb and above are becoming scarce. With a minimum landing size set at below maturity and the brood stock under pressure, bass are being squeezed from both ends.

 

The real tragedy of all this is that conditions are favourable for bass and there are probably more bass around (numerically) that there have been in the past decade. Once the young ones get to 36cm (40cm from next April, which is still below the size of first spawning for females) and they are hammered before they can spawn even once, it can only be a few more years before bass too are on the pressure list and the current opportunity will have been wasted because of short-sightedness by some.

 

Bag limits for anglers won't save bass, but that isn't the reason behind the proposal.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

Hi Glenn

 

QUOTE/ bass are being squeezed from both ends

 

Wait till April when the under 40cm bass discards kick, then you will see alot less bass around

 

Regards Steve

[Leon Roskilly]

Wait till April when the under 40cm bass discards kick, then you will see alot less bass around

 

Leaving aside the argument that undersized bass that are discarded are just dead bass that go back into the sea, and not to the market (it makes no difference at all to the dead bass, whether it's landed or discarded).

 

Perhaps the bass fishery should be closed in areas where there is evidence that a high discard level of undersized fish occurs Steve.

 

At the moment DEFRA/CEFAS are assuming that bass boats will soon adapt to the new mls and avoid such areas.

 

But if they don't that will build a good case for quickly introducing mandatory closures in the inshore bass fishery I guess.

 

And as most of the undersized fish are encountered close in, I guess that is another good reason for pushing ahead as soon as possible with the Golden Mile.

 

Hopefully responsible fishermen, with an eye to the future, and the need to preserve stocks, will adapt and avoid the need for such measures.

Edited January 15, 2007 by Leon Roskilly

[glennk]

Well if size bass and undersized bass swim together there is no doubt they will be targeted and discards will be thrown back in. Get ready to feel complete and utter despair.

[stavey]

I'll freely admit that pictures of heaps of dead fish do nothing for me, in fact I sometimes feel very saddened by shots of tiny fish laid out along a pier or breakwater.

I feel sad because that is all that there is to catch for most people and I feel sad that they feel some acheivement in catching fish that are so small, when bigger fish used to be available. They haven't experienced the bigger fish that used to be around to make fishing really worthwhile.

But that is my personal view and I don't expect anyone else to see it this way.

 

I live in Bristol (not Essex) - less that 15 minutes from the Bristol Channel, which used to be a wonderful winter cod venue, with 20 and 30lb cod available from the shore.

Codling of 2 -3lb are now the mainstay and the odd biggie still turns up, but it is a shadow of what it used to be - but that's cod fishing all over I guess.

I don't bother now, but thousands still get enjoyment out of it and good luck to them.

 

I haven't changed my views about the BMP - I still think that it offers a serious set of management proposals for bass and I will continue to support BASS in its efforts to enlighted the fisheries management regime in the UK and Europe towards managing the species that are important to anglers.

 

I've rambled on as usual - sorry about that.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

Hi steve

 

I for one totaly agree with your sentiments, the only difference in my area is we dont have any sort of mainstay at all regards cod! as they are pretty much extinct here nowadays and they aint never coming back no matter what imo.

 

Mullet/bass/smoothound are the future here for the rsa and they should be taken off the commercial list altogether and protected for rsa only.

[Steve Coppolo]

Any news yet?