That little old thing called climate change

[snakey1]

Problem is as i see i'm not sure anything we do will make any difference afterall we cannot predict the paths of tornadoes or when they will appear neither can we stop them when they do, the same with hurricanes earthquakes and volcanoes etc now these are only localised small events and if we cannot correctly predict or alter these events how do we think we are going to alter a global condition which is a vastly larger problem.I think we are getting a bit big for our boots thinking we can, we can try but as i say i'm not sure how much it will make any difference.

As i see it the planet is actually naturally hotter than it is at the moment afterall the dinosaurs were around for over 160 million years one of the reasons for this was the world was a lot warmer than it is now so if we are coming out of a mini ice age and warming up i don't think there is anything we can do to stop it and thats with the worlds population working together(which isn't going to happen). As to the meterological evidence taken from historical records, considering recorded metrological data goes back about 300 years and the planet has been around for approx 4.5 billion years taking such limited data as gospel of whats happening to the planet is just bad science.

I personnelly feel that the planet is in a warming trend at this moment, how much man has contributed to this is debatable but i feel not as much as is being guilt tripped upon us and as i've stated earlier we can try our best to change things but really i don't think anything we will do is going to make a difference, nature will eventually redress any imbalences and when it does it may be at our expense but then nature is very impersonnel in that way after all we are only a very small cog in the grand machine that is our planet.

Edited June 22, 2007 by snakey1

[chesters1]

I don't think we can rely on phenomena like this to save our bacon.

 

The climate is changing, and we need to take control of the situation, whether or not we are 100% responsible for the changes or not we need to take some remedial action. What bit of this last sentence do all you climate change denialists not understand or have an issue with?

no ones denying that its warmer now than a few year ago ,but most are denying that :

1) were causing it.

2) its some new strange world threatening phenomena

3) that taxing the population to the hilt will somehow cure it

 

"scientists" are adept at singling out "facts" that support their case (and future funding) and brushing the other bits that disagree with their "facts" under the carpet!

the earth as i have said plenty of times is hotter now than in an ice age and colder when it was a tropical swamp ,life went on !huge populations of life died ,it did then it will do in the future ,cant get any simpler than that

everything we use ,make or extract is naturally occuring in its simple element form ,when we dispose of it in landfill it reverts to what it was before we got involved except all in one place.

our total "output" of CO2 is put to shame by one volcano as is the rest of those supposedly harmful gasses were supposed to be destroying the earth with

oil is based on carbon where do you think that carbon came from ? gods ear wax? ,it reverts back to the elements it was made from when its used ,faster i agree but in the natural cycle of the earth not uncommon.

notice another strange thing compare the earths warming to the destruction of the south american and asiatic rain forests! ,yes those trees felled and burn release all the carbon they stored ,replanting eventually locks it back up ,instead of punishing us try south america and the other countries.

if you truly want to "save" the earth kill foreigners who cut down trees.

once the oils gone we will simply find another hydrocarbon to use ,carbon is the backbone of the earth everything contains it ,nature puts it in things ,nature releases it after death and nature recycles it into something else ,it has done ,its happening now ,it will in the future and with or without our "help"

 

if some people dont like putting CO2 into the atmosphere ,let themlive naked in the woods ,but stop breathing, eating .F-ing and crapping because that all counts in the cycle they despise

Edited June 22, 2007 by chesters1

[Jim Roper]

I don't think we can rely on phenomena like this to save our bacon.

 

The climate is changing, and we need to take control of the situation, whether or not we are 100% responsible for the changes or not we need to take some remedial action. What bit of this last sentence do all you climate change denialists not understand or have an issue with?

 

I have not contributed to the population and have never flown.

 

I think I'm doing my bit!

 

How about you?

[Newt]

The climate is changing, and we need to take control of the situation, ....................

What bit of this last sentence do all you climate change denialists not understand or have an issue with?

 

I'm not a 'climate change denialist' if I understand that term but while I think we can probably have some effect, I really can't see any way that people can 'take control' of climate change. We don't have the tools available to do that any more than we can 'control' earthquakes, hurricanes, or other massive phenomena.

[corydoras]

no ones denying that its warmer now than a few year ago ,but most are denying that :

1) were causing it.

2) its some new strange world threatening phenomena

3) that taxing the population to the hilt will somehow cure it

 

"scientists" are adept at singling out "facts" that support their case (and future funding) and brushing the other bits that disagree with their "facts" under the carpet!

the earth as i have said plenty of times is hotter now than in an ice age and colder when it was a tropical swamp ,life went on !huge populations of life died ,it did then it will do in the future ,cant get any simpler than that

everything we use ,make or extract is naturally occuring in its simple element form ,when we dispose of it in landfill it reverts to what it was before we got involved except all in one place.

our total "output" of CO2 is put to shame by one volcano as is the rest of those supposedly harmful gasses were supposed to be destroying the earth with

oil is based on carbon where do you think that carbon came from ? gods ear wax? ,it reverts back to the elements it was made from when its used ,faster i agree but in the natural cycle of the earth not uncommon.

notice another strange thing compare the earths warming to the destruction of the south american and asiatic rain forests! ,yes those trees felled and burn release all the carbon they stored ,replanting eventually locks it back up ,instead of punishing us try south america and the other countries.

if you truly want to "save" the earth kill foreigners who cut down trees.

once the oils gone we will simply find another hydrocarbon to use ,carbon is the backbone of the earth everything contains it ,nature puts it in things ,nature releases it after death and nature recycles it into something else ,it has done ,its happening now ,it will in the future and with or without our "help"

 

if some people dont like putting CO2 into the atmosphere ,let themlive naked in the woods ,but stop breathing, eating .F-ing and crapping because that all counts in the cycle they despise

I can see that it is going to be difficult to debate this issue with you because no matter what I say or what evidence I lay before you, you are going to deny it, just like the one of the contemporaries of Galilei who refused to look into the lens of Galilei's telescope for fear of what may be have been revealed to their senses.

 

Let me start on just two of the points that you raise.

 

You deny that Global Climate Change is anthropomorphic. I suggest that you read this http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf document. If this won't change your mind then nothing I doubt that are any words that I can type up here are going to make one jot of a difference. ? Your 'fact' about volcanoes is no more a fact than if I suddenly declared that the sky was pink.

 

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archi...imate/#more-306. Of course you probably won't believe a word in either document as they have been written by scientists.

[corydoras]

I have not contributed to the population and have never flown.

 

I think I'm doing my bit!

 

How about you?

I have three kids and flew all around the world when I was in the merchant navy. CO2 produced by jet planes is no better or worse than CO2 produced by car exhausts. I am however forever in you debt to you for making the commendable decision to remove your genitic code from the gene pool.

[Newt]

I am however forever in you debt to you for making the commendable decision to remove your genitic code from the gene pool.

Corydoras - that sort of overstated, inflamatory, and insulting comment is one of the main reasons you have trouble 'debating' topics with people.

 

Any person your age who decides to have or not have children will have such a minute direct effect on you that it isn't even worth mentioning, much less putting you in their debt.

[corydoras]

Problem is as i see i'm not sure anything we do will make any difference afterall we cannot predict the paths of tornadoes or when they will appear neither can we stop them when they do, the same with hurricanes earthquakes and volcanoes etc now these are only localised small events and if we cannot correctly predict or alter these events how do we think we are going to alter a global condition which is a vastly larger problem.I think we are getting a bit big for our boots thinking we can, we can try but as i say i'm not sure how much it will make any difference.

As i see it the planet is actually naturally hotter than it is at the moment afterall the dinosaurs were around for over 160 million years one of the reasons for this was the world was a lot warmer than it is now so if we are coming out of a mini ice age and warming up i don't think there is anything we can do to stop it and thats with the worlds population working together(which isn't going to happen). As to the meterological evidence taken from historical records, considering recorded metrological data goes back about 300 years and the planet has been around for approx 4.5 billion years taking such limited data as gospel of whats happening to the planet is just bad science.

I personnelly feel that the planet is in a warming trend at this moment, how much man has contributed to this is debatable but i feel not as much as is being guilt tripped upon us and as i've stated earlier we can try our best to change things but really i don't think anything we will do is going to make a difference, nature will eventually redress any imbalences and when it does it may be at our expense but then nature is very impersonnel in that way after all we are only a very small cog in the grand machine that is our planet.

The first thing you can do is to read the IPCC report so that you can get your head round the notion that the planet is warming up dramatically, and that we are largely responsible. Read and understand the science. This stuff about meterological data only going back 150-300 years is just false for a start. We can use dendroclimatology and core samples of ice from the arctic and antartic ice.

[corydoras]

Corydoras - that sort of overstated, inflamatory, and insulting comment is one of the main reasons you have trouble 'debating' topics with people.

 

Any person your age who decides to have or not have children will have such a minute direct effect on you that it isn't even worth mentioning, much less putting you in their debt.

Newt I am sorry, I try to refrain from making 'ad hominem' arguments. I will attempt to be a bit more PC in future. Edited June 24, 2007 by corydoras

[corydoras]

I'm not a 'climate change denialist' if I understand that term but while I think we can probably have some effect, I really can't see any way that people can 'take control' of climate change. We don't have the tools available to do that any more than we can 'control' earthquakes, hurricanes, or other massive phenomena.

I don't think that each of us as individuals can do much at all. What we all can do is educate ourselves about the causes of global climate change and stop denying that it has anything to do with mankind, this would be a really big first step.