Oh well , seeing as no-one else will............

[Ken Davison South Wales]

Kids are fed on violence from an early age, all programs aimed at kids from five up contain violent elements, I can't name them all there are far to many and they are made into cult idols.

 

Dealing with a situation is a swift kick in the head on 99% of these programs.

 

Then they move onto play stations and again 99% are shooting and kicking each other to pieces.

 

It becomes second nature to kids to hit out to solve what they see as a problem.

 

So who is to blame.

 

We are for allowing the creation of all of this junk and allowing people with no scruples from making millions out of it.

 

Our society is training kids to destroy rather than build.

 

Of cause that makes my previous post look some what harsh, matching violence with violence but I am sure the threat would stop 99% of the kids in their tracks.

[*Ant*]

Kids are fed on violence from an early age, all programs aimed at kids from five up contain violent elements, I can't name them all there are far to many and they are made into cult idols.

 

Dealing with a situation is a swift kick in the head on 99% of these programs.

 

Then they move onto play stations and again 99% are shooting and kicking each other to pieces.

 

It becomes second nature to kids to hit out to solve what they see as a problem.

 

So who is to blame.

 

We are for allowing the creation of all of this junk and allowing people with no scruples from making millions out of it.

 

Our society is training kids to destroy rather than build.

 

Of cause that makes my previous post look some what harsh, matching violence with violence but I am sure the threat would stop 99% of the kids in their tracks.

 

I'm not so sure Ken, I think we all watched tom and jerry when we were kids and that's full of violence.

 

Maybe just maybe it's political correctness that is to blame. When I was growing up I would always be playing cowboys and indians, pirates, playing at being a solidier etc etc. All boys played with toy guns, bows and arrows, swords etc.

These days it is frowned upon for kids to play with these toys and considered unPC. Perhaps my generation and the generations before got it all out of our systems when we were young and innocent, yet the youth of today maybe don't have that same chance.

Edited August 16, 2007 by *Ant*

[Guest Brumagem Phil]

A few quick points as I'm tired tonight.......

 

1. France and Italy don't have anywhere near the youth alcohol problems we have yet have few restrictions on youngsters drinking. It seems to be a British thing to ban everything.

 

2. Political correctness is not to blame. The yobs have as little respect for PC as anything else.

 

3. Kids are spoiled and lazy and expect everything (including entertainment) to be laid on for them and paid for by someone else.

 

4. No sense of history....yeah I know, it might sound trivial but I wonder if the kids would really kick the crap out of our pensioners if they really KNEW what they went through for this country?

 

5. There's half an argument for national service.......would it instill a sense of pride, duty and discipline in the youths of today?

 

6. Tied to number 5 but maybe an option for young offenders to join the forces rather than be incarcerated.......benefits potentially as per number 5.

 

7. Violence and being some sort of thug/mafioso drug dealer is all that gives kids respect. They need better roll models (not idiots like Beckham)

 

That'll do for now..............nite all.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Brumagem Phil

[corydoras]

What I mean by PC's are the people who (WRONGLY) believe that by making bashing kids illegal, will stop the violence, as those who do it are not worried about laws. PC's are the people who tell that a policeman he/she cannot clip a youngster as it "violates his human rights". PC's are the people who have pulled the teeth of this country, allowing the criminals to shout "human rights" and are listened to, but those victims who also have human rights are ignored!

Does that make it clear!!

So all the ills and woes of modern society will be cured if we all bash our kids a bit more? I don't think that my two kids, who have never been 'bashed' in their lives would agree with you. You sound a bit like my best mates dad, he was not capable of maintaining discipline in his household through reason and rules, so the fist of fury was deployed instead. What kids lack is discipline, morals and self respect. If one has no respect for oneself, it is difficult to respect others.

[kleinboet]

Right! Here's something for you all to argue about.

Conscription! The argument goes that the yobs will just learn to kill. THEY KNOW HOW TO KILL!!!!

Send them to Iraq/Afghanistan, they have to learn that their lives (and others) depend on teamwork and trusting/RESPECTING others!

I had a friend (sadly deceased) who's son was a terror! Long story, but he joined the army - He is now a red beret and has applied for the SAS and is respectful to others! Kids need to learn respect!

 

As to the child bashing - legislation is not needed. Parents will punish the children, but not beat them! Those that do, could not give a fig about legislation - legal or otherwise, they will still do it!

Which would you rather have, a policeman who will drag your kid home to you and explain to you what misdemeanor he has done and leave the punishment to you OR the police arrest the youth, take him to the station where he is read the riot act by the senior officer and allowed to go home!

(he has to find his/her own way). To me this just causes the youths to resent the police!

[RobStubbs]

There's no simple answer and no single cause for these 'problems' and to try and suggest any one factor is either responsible or one thing will solve these problems is I think being extremely naive. The problem is that society changes over time the other problem is that other aspects of society don't change accordingly. So for example you have violence on TV, computer games etc. Weaker legal systems, liberal attitudes to crime, government reducing spending on crime reduction and community policing, reduced powers to arrest and prosecute, weak CPS and liberal courts etc. The list is endless.

 

The only real solution, if there is one is to get a government that have the balls to tackle all these social issues and put their money where their mouth is. The problem is that it isn't a vote winner so it ain't gonna happen. That leaves us in the same position as before.

 

It then comes back round to individual responsibilities. Whilst people say 'it ain't my job' and let other people try and sort things out it will just carry on getting worse. Society is all of us and we all have a responsibility to look after it. The problem though is that society is so fragmented and there's no cohesion or sense of belonging or national pride. People harp on about the war years and how things were so much better - yes and the reason for that is because everyone had a common goal and people were all pulling in the same direction. I struggle to see what kind of unifying event could have a strong enough pull to achieve the same kind of effect in the future - apart from the aforementioned.

 

Rob.

Edited August 16, 2007 by RobStubbs

[corydoras]

A few quick points as I'm tired tonight.......

 

1. France and Italy don't have anywhere near the youth alcohol problems we have yet have few restrictions on youngsters drinking. It seems to be a British thing to ban everything.

 

2. Political correctness is not to blame. The yobs have as little respect for PC as anything else.

 

3. Kids are spoiled and lazy and expect everything (including entertainment) to be laid on for them and paid for by someone else.

 

4. No sense of history....yeah I know, it might sound trivial but I wonder if the kids would really kick the crap out of our pensioners if they really KNEW what they went through for this country?

 

5. There's half an argument for national service.......would it instill a sense of pride, duty and discipline in the youths of today?

 

6. Tied to number 5 but maybe an option for young offenders to join the forces rather than be incarcerated.......benefits potentially as per number 5.

 

7. Violence and being some sort of thug/mafioso drug dealer is all that gives kids respect. They need better roll models (not idiots like Beckham)

 

That'll do for now..............nite all.

Hi Phil

I'd like to make a comment on points 1 and 3. France is not Utopia, France has social problems caused by young people drinking, and you do see groups of youths hanging around at night, drinking and smoking just like you do here, but they on the whole do not indulge in the violence that we see too often here.

 

In France there is loads of 'entertainment' laid on for kids and it is mostly low cost or free. Our own village has a rock concert on the prom every Friday or Saturday night and it is free, the 'noise' does my head in sometimes as it is only 50m away from my home, but I shrug it off because I know that it is keeping the kids occupied. My kids can and do take music lessons which are not free, but cost little , my eldest swims for her county, my son's thing is Judo. First lesson in judo is "It is forbidden to hurt someone deliberately", and it is hammered into them every Saturday morning from the age of 5.

 

I can't speak for Italy, I have never really been there, and it was a long time ago but in France there is a huge emphasis on families and family life. There are far fewer one parent families in France than there are here. Sure there are one parent families caused by separation and divorce, but we seem to have a lot of 'families' that are one-parent from day one. Maybe this has something to do with it?

[corydoras]

Right! Here's something for you all to argue about.

Conscription! The argument goes that the yobs will just learn to kill. THEY KNOW HOW TO KILL!!!

The forces don't want them. The forces want professionals, people who want to be there. I am glad that France has stopped National Service. I would not want my son to come home on weekend leave with a black and blue face the way his uncle did because some fat swine of a drill sergeant thought it would be fun to stamp on it. Edited August 16, 2007 by corydoras

[Ken Davison South Wales]

I have read through the replies, I don't know the ages of the people involved, but as a youngster I watched Tom & Jerry and it was and still is very tame compared to todays TV and play station type games.

 

I used to go to Saturday morning flicks and watch cowboy films and we would all come out whooping it up with rain coats over shoulders as cloaks.

 

BUT the main difference was what we saw was not graphic detail, heads exploding, limbs flying in all directions, blood splattered every where.

 

Kids today grow up with this type of media violence and it is a learning period so they accept this as a way of life, a reality, a way of sorting things out.

 

You then have news programs showing graphic war and terrorist results, people covered in blood and dying.

 

There is a lack of discipline mainly arising from both parents working to keep a roof over their heads so they buy all these gadgets to entertain there kids.

 

As so rightly stated it is not just one thing, but if you sit and look at life quietly you will see this unavoidable thread of accepted violence through every day life.

 

On that note I am taking the Sparrow out for a safe bike ride on the coastal path and a meal, that will cut down his intake by a few hours.

[kleinboet]

Cory - I know where you are coming from - BUT - Leave the kids on the street to kill?

What I am thinking is keep the "pro's" at home to ensure safety in Blighty, while sending the yobs en-masse to Iraq/Afghanistan so that they learn that they HAVE to respect and rely on others instead of being "the main man". If they don't learn to work as a team - they're DEAD! after 12 - 18 months of that, they would come back human!