Ethics?

[Peter M]

There are some really informative and well thought out posts on this thread, just go's to show that despite different opinons we can deabte in an adult way, Androos post was brillant by the way, well done.

[Neil G]

Some interesting posts on here, some telling what they are comfortable with, some fearing for the future of angling, and some just casting a bait for other members to take. Apart from Medwaygreen nobody has answered the question I asked, "What causes the changes in angling attitudes?"

One of the reasons I believe, (as mentioned by Capt C) is that the custom of 'humanising' animals, and giving them emotions and credit for reasoning as a human would. In my experience fish are not clever, cunning, sly etc, any more than polar bears are cute or cuddly. Fish react to their surroundings and the stimuli it contains. Instinct makes them react to unusual events. Their basic existence relies on two things, surviving and breeding, they have to eat to survive, (luckily for anglers), and they produce fry in such numbers that they have a good chance of reaching breeding age. They have a place in the scheme of things as do all living things.

IMO, Any emotions, feelings, or reasoning that they are credited with, says more about the human imagination than it does about the fish themselves.

 

Disney and co have a lot to answer for.

 

John.

 

Well said....I couldn't agree more with that

[Steve Walker]

Well said, Anderoo.

[dant]

I can well under stand your comments on cormorants but are otters really getting to such numbers that they need culling down your way? Could count on one hand the number Ive seen in 30 odd years of fishing in NW England, just another predator to me, no different to a pike and a lot less of them.

 

Lutra I was of course only joking you're safe for the time being!. Personally, I'm delighted to see the Otters back on our rivers. There are quite a number on the River Waveney where I do a lot of fishing. I've seen at least 4 different Otters over an 8 mile stretch of river this year...

Edited January 21, 2008 by dant

[Jeff S]

Superb,

I have been struggling to put into words my own personal view and with this post and for me you have elequently summed up the main issues. I do feel that age has a bearing on the issue simply for the reason that in my own case I have a greater experience of life than I did when I was young and as such many beliefs that I held then have been changed through those experinces and I am sure will continue to do so in the future.. Cultural changes in general regarding what is acceptable and what is not I believe have also had a great impact and whilst I fully accept that people are entitled to their views, I also maintain the right to make my own mind up about what is personally acceptable or otherwise and like the author of the above post I would also stop fishing if the wildness, freedom, uncertainty and difficulty were taken out of the equation.

 

 

Ditto

[lutra]

Lutra I was of course only joking you're safe for the time being!. Personally, I'm delighted to see the Otters back on our rivers. There are quite a number on the River Waveney where I do a lot of fishing. I've seen at least 4 different Otters over an 8 mile stretch of river this year...

 

Sorry wasn't sure if you were joking or not given some other posters views on otters.

 

Despite my screen name I'm no expert on otters, but 4 sounds like quite a lot of otters, as i under stand it they're very territorial. Must be near max. toleration point for each other but like i say I'm no expert.

[gozzer]

Well said, Anderoo.

 

Go on Andrew, I'll join the fan club. Good post (anymore of this and you'll need a bigger hat for stalking those chub ).

 

It's interesting that a number of posters have mentioned age as a reason. We all have some change in attitude as we get older, (I know I have become much more cynical about my fellow man, and woman don't want to fall foul of the PC brigade ). I believe however, that longevity is no guarantee of wisdom, and find that my own actions and feelings towards nature have change very little over the years, and this is probably why I feel so at odds with some 'modern' angling attitudes.

To me a some of the changes are like a double edged sword. Unhooking mats for instance. There are situations where they are a good thing, but, like all things common sense is needed and there are times when they can cause fish to be out of the water longer than necessary. I feel that it's this 'common sense' thing that is not pushed enough, while the 'must have' piece of equipment is quoted as an essential to have and to use.

I feel that it's much more a game of 'follow the leader' than it used to be. Where 'celeb' anglers dictate the latest 'must have' piece of tackle, the latest method, or the newest 'ethical' 'caring' fish friendly(?) 'conscience appeasing' gadget. All designed to make someone a few quid.

What happened to the "that looks like a decent idea, I'll see if I can adapt it into my way of fishing", Instead of "Fred Bloggs says it's a good idea, I'll have have to have/do that" that seems prevalent today.

Maybe it's just a society thing, that's crept into angling.

I'm rambling now, so I'll get back into my time capsule and shut the door for a while, ta, ta.

 

John.

Edited January 21, 2008 by gozzer

[dant]

Sorry wasn't sure if you were joking or not given some other posters views on otters.

 

Despite my screen name I'm no expert on otters, but 4 sounds like quite a lot of otters, as i under stand it they're very territorial. Must be near max. toleration point for each other but like i say I'm no expert.

 

Thats ok Lutra

 

It is quite a few. I've actually seen two Dog Otters having a dusk fall out too, it looked and sounded like quite a set to. The reason there's quite a few on the Waveney being that there was an Otter sanctuary on the upper river that had a release progam. I think the Waveney was a pilot scheme for their release in East Anglia..

But this is all a little off topic so we'd better leave it there..

[Guest Rabbit]

Add me to Anderloo, all makes good sense really...but especially the bit about caring more as we get older, well if that was that case Newt would be a dead ringer for Mother Theresa, but thankfully Den rather proves the point and dare I say me too.

[wanzelbin]

Have anglers become more 'caring'? No, I don't think so. Anglers are generally some of the most caring people you could wish to meet.

 

As others have said, I think that was an excellent post, but I don't quite agree that anglers haven't become more caring, at least in a general sense.

 

I think everyone has become more caring, including anglers. It seems to me that with better life expectancy, health, education, money etc, people's natural altruism has become redirected. You used to have to look after yourself and those immediately around you, in your family or community, and though we still do, it's nothing like as onerous as it used to be. The stereotypical philanthropists of the 18th and 19th century were idle rich folk with nothing better to do than spend their money on making themselves and others feel good. Now you could argue that most people are like that. We send money to countries in Africa, run a mile for Sport Relief, wear red noses and support countless other charities. The size and popularity of the RSPCA and RSPB gives a good indication of how much that concern for others' welfare can also directed at animals.

 

It's bred a culture of caring - everyone's very conscious of their effect on things outside themselves - especially now-a-days the environment and everything within it. There's doubtlessly many other reasons for more caring generally - the world wars, international news and 24 hour news highlighting every sad story that can be found etc. Also agree that age must have an effect - I've certainly become far more conscious of such things since I became a parent.

 

I'm quite sure the "disney" effect (anthropomorphising) hasn't bothered anglers too much, but it must play a role in the public's opinion of fishing. However the general increase and all-encompassing nature of a caring society (including anglers) seems to me very likely to have changed our attitudes to how we treat fish, just like everything else.

 

W