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John, yes, it was satire, but made a serious point about those who stir up hatred and then act as if they had nothing to do with the results.

 

Communities change. It happens even without international migration. People in London get upset when their neighbourhood goes up market and gets infested first with hipsters, then with rich people. Often displacing ethnic minority communities, who in turn had displaced white working class communities. Locals in Cumbria moan about offcomers and pensioners pricing their kids out of the market. Changes in local industry lead to villages becoming dormitories for city workers. Young people dont go to church, or the local post office, or the pub, things change, older people moan about it.

 

Meanwhile, people, who basically all want to live their lives, raise their families, make their living, go on doing so.

 

So you are saying that because some 'entrepreneur' decides to buy up an area, and tries and push the locals out for profit, it's ok, accept it, that's life. That the situation is the same as when thousands of immigrants descend on an area and spread into all surrounding areas, usually bringing the house values down. It's tantamount to being invaded. The long term locals find that their whole lifestyle is completely changed, the pubs and clubs, the shops, the entertainment, everything is either gone, or changed. They have to adapt to suit those that move into the area, instead of the newcomers adapting to suit their adopted country. You think that's ok, and they shouldn't worry or react?

I'm guessing that you've never been in that position, or if you have, you've been in a position to move.

 

I think I will bow out of this Steve, because from some earlier posts, I think it might be a personal issue for you, as the other side of the coin is personal to me. So I think it's best if we just admit that neither is going to see the others side, and just agree to differ on this one.

 

Cheers John

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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You appear to have a particular and specific hatred for Islam. You fear that Muslims are going to enact the ludicrous bits of their scripture in ways you dont fear Christians will.   People used to

This was a disgusting act by disgusting people and to try to infer that the victims deserve it in some way is even more disgusting.

Not good. Can't really say I'm shocked but I didn't expect it to be NZ. Hopefully there won't be a response/copycat, but if there is, things could go bad real quick.

So you are saying that because some 'entrepreneur' decides to buy up an area, and tries and push the locals out for profit, it's ok, accept it, that's life. That the situation is the same as when thousands of immigrants descend on an area and spread into all surrounding areas, usually bringing the house values down. It's tantamount to being invaded. The long term locals find that their whole lifestyle is completely changed, the pubs and clubs, the shops, the entertainment, everything is either gone, or changed. They have to adapt to suit those that move into the area, instead of the newcomers adapting to suit their adopted country. You think that's ok, and they shouldn't worry or react?

I'm guessing that you've never been in that position, or if you have, you've been in a position to move.

 

John, I'm just saying that places change, it's always been the way of the world and always will be. Different groups move in and out. Ways of life change. People are basically the same.

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John, I'm just saying that places change, it's always been the way of the world and always will be. Different groups move in and out. Ways of life change. People are basically the same.

 

I know I said I was bowing out Steve, but...

 

I know it's always been like that, but all I'm asking is it right, and should the 'displaced' locals just roll over and accept it? If so, why do the Scots still go on about the 'clearings', the American native Indians about losing their lands, the aboriginal peoples of Australia, or the Arab nations about Israel? Should they all just accept that it's the nature of man, things change, get over it.

If you see your whole future life, and that of your family and neighbours, is being dictated to, and swallowed up, by an alien culture, then isn't fear for the outcome a natural emotion, and if as you say 'hatred is rooted in fear' then isn't that hatred natural? It's happened through the ages, whenever anyone has felt oppressed. So by the same logic shouldn't that fear and hatred be just accepted?

It's always been the way of the world, and always will be. It shouldn't be, but if you accept it one way, then you have to accept it the other.

 

John.

Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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Hmm, but those Muslim families in Leeds are British citizens subject to British laws and they buy or rent their land. They haven't turned up, slaughtered the natives and stolen their lands. I don't think it's the same thing at all. I don't think the issue in the US and Australia was really the acceptance of living side by side with people with different ways of life so much as the genocide.

 

If someone is brown, and wears different clothes to me, and doesn't consume pork or alcohol, and goes to a mosque instead of a church, they're not dictating anything to me.

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Dutch shooting

 

 

A gunman has opened fire inside a tram and at several other locations in the Dutch city of Utrecht, authorities say.

Several people have been injured and one is feared to have died, media reports say.

Police say the gunman is still at large. Trains and trams have stopped running and schools have been asked to keep their doors closed.

Counter-terrorism police reportedly say the shooting "appears to be a terrorist attack".

"La conclusión es que los insultos sólo perjudican cuando vienen de alguien que respeto". e5006689.gif

“Vescere bracis meis”

 

 

 

 

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I purposely used the extremes of America, and Australia, to counter the way you seem to belittle what to some is a real concern.

It's the Dewsbury area, but it is spreading to some parts of Leeds.

I'm not bothered what colour they might be, what and where they choose to worship, or even what they do and don't eat, that's their way of life. No they don't dictate to you, because you don't live there.

I'll give one example of Savile Town recently mentioned in this thread. A Polish guy moved into rented accommodation in the area, there was a petition raised to get him moved. Not because he was abusive, noisy, or caused trouble in the area. It was simply because he had a drink on a weekend, and those around him didn't approve. Enclaves like Savile Town, are a law unto themselves, not officially, but everyone is aware of it. The police won't act on it unless something really bad surfaces, because they know it could cause a riot, and bloodshed. There used to be a thriving mixed community, but now it's something like 90+% Muslim.

 

I struggle to understand how you can just brush off the concerns of those people effected by this. I dislike racism, for racisms sake, but understand that people in such areas can fear for their future. That fear can turn into resentment, which in turn can become hatred. Try standing in the square and telling them that 'it's just the way of the world', I doubt you would get a positive reaction.

It's not all about white, right wing, extremists, spewing hatred, these are ordinary people, just wanting to live their ordinary lives without too much hassle.

 

John.

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Angling is more than just catching fish, if it wasn't it would just be called 'catching'......... John

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Gozzer,

 

Your posts #41 #43 and #46 all say the same thing. You're frustrated.

 

Frankly, your are correct in your assessment, change is inevidable. The only natural response is found in three words "Freeze" - "Fight" or "Flight". It was true in OZ - true for the American Indians and true in all nature.

 

You ask, "Should they all just accept that it's the nature of man, things change, get over it." And if you reflect on history of mankind and the science of evolution, the only answer is "yes".

 

Antidotal examples aside this is not racism - it is the way of nature - freeze, fight or flight.

 

Nothing more.

 

Phone

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I purposely used the extremes of America, and Australia, to counter the way you seem to belittle what to some is a real concern.

It's the Dewsbury area, but it is spreading to some parts of Leeds.

I'm not bothered what colour they might be, what and where they choose to worship, or even what they do and don't eat, that's their way of life. No they don't dictate to you, because you don't live there.

I'll give one example of Savile Town recently mentioned in this thread. A Polish guy moved into rented accommodation in the area, there was a petition raised to get him moved. Not because he was abusive, noisy, or caused trouble in the area. It was simply because he had a drink on a weekend, and those around him didn't approve. Enclaves like Savile Town, are a law unto themselves, not officially, but everyone is aware of it. The police won't act on it unless something really bad surfaces, because they know it could cause a riot, and bloodshed. There used to be a thriving mixed community, but now it's something like 90+% Muslim.

 

I struggle to understand how you can just brush off the concerns of those people effected by this. I dislike racism, for racisms sake, but understand that people in such areas can fear for their future. That fear can turn into resentment, which in turn can become hatred. Try standing in the square and telling them that 'it's just the way of the world', I doubt you would get a positive reaction.

It's not all about white, right wing, extremists, spewing hatred, these are ordinary people, just wanting to live their ordinary lives without too much hassle.

 

John.

You're wasting your breath John. To people who haven't lived it and get along perfectly well with their Muslim doctor, the lads in their local takeaway and the Sikh guy in the corner shop, you're a vile intolerant racist.

Anyone taking about the industrial scale grooming and rape of young girls prior to 2014 was treated as a pariah to be scoffed at and yet, this stuff has been going on for decades - I was first told that it was an issue for Sikh families back in the late 80's.

No doubt there are those that are shocked by the attack in Utrecht or think it's unconnected to Christchurch but in fact, it is simply what will be the first of many responses to a perceived attack upon the Umma.

Species caught in 2020: Barbel. European Eel. Bleak. Perch. Pike.

Species caught in 2019: Pike. Bream. Tench. Chub. Common Carp. European Eel. Barbel. Bleak. Dace.

Species caught in 2018: Perch. Bream. Rainbow Trout. Brown Trout. Chub. Roach. Carp. European Eel.

Species caught in 2017: Siamese carp. Striped catfish. Rohu. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Black Minnow Shark. Perch. Chub. Brown Trout. Pike. Bream. Roach. Rudd. Bleak. Common Carp.

Species caught in 2016: Siamese carp. Jullien's golden carp. Striped catfish. Mekong catfish. Amazon red tail catfish. Arapaima. Alligator gar. Rohu. Black Minnow Shark. Roach, Bream, Perch, Ballan Wrasse. Rudd. Common Carp. Pike. Zander. Chub. Bleak.

Species caught in 2015: Brown Trout. Roach. Bream. Terrapin. Eel. Barbel. Pike. Chub.

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The answer to that kind of harassment is fair and equal application of our laws. Not shooting up a mosque, or supporting hatred.

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Ken,

 

A perfect islamophobic response. I am "people", have had surgery by a non-christian dr (not sure his "faith" had much to do with his skill as a surgeon though).

You fall far short of describing a 2000+ year old culture when you say, ""industrial scale grooming and rape of young girls prior to 2014 was treated as a pariah to be scoffed at and yet, this stuff has been going on for decades - I was first told that it was an issue for Sikh families back in the late 80's."" Since when do non-believers enter into any facet of morality - of culture? I'll tell you when, it is when they wish to stir up chit among those with different traditional values.

I guess those who are christians don't try to "groom" on an industrial scale,

 

The "battle" lines will be drawn - IMO far more similar to the history of species survival than a repeat of Christian Muslim crusades.

 

Phone

For example, pandemic disease, water, food resources, air quality, survivable land mass temperatures

Edit: and maybe addressing the sidebar of this thread it would not be out of the question to mention "contested global space". The ubiquitous "they" think you did a fine job preparing there new home land and want to kindly thank you.

Edited by Phone
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