Athiest bus campaign

[snakey1]

That's the whole point. Ptolomy's ideas were accepted for more than a thousand years but when the hard evidence turned up to contradict them, they were thrown out and replaced with an alternate world view that fitted the new observations. Our understanding of the movements of stars and planets has since been superceeded by the work of Newton and Einstien and the reason why the old ideas have been updated is because they no longer explained the observations and viable alternatives were proposed that did. There may be peer review but there is no dogma and nobody ever got murdered by the scientific establishment for successfully overturning a previously accepted theory.

Exactly. so the point being the theories that corydoras is claiming are facts and written in stone could be equally as easily overturned in the next thousand years as our understanding and knowledge increases, don't get me wrong i'm not standing up for the god botherers but to claim that a theory is a fact is wrong as stephen hawkins says in corys link "Any physical theory is always provisional, in the sense that it is only a hypothesis; you can never prove it. No matter how many times the results of experiments agree with some theory, you can never be sure that the next time the result will not contradict the theory."

Edited January 13, 2009 by snakey1

[Ken L]

Unlike maths and to a lesser extent physics, other sciences don't have "proofs" that allow for a theory to be shown to be absolutely demonstrably true. Nontheless, I think that in the case of evolution, the amount of evidence supporting it is so overwhelming and from so mamy different scientific disciplines that it has to be regarded as fact.

[corydoras]

Unlike maths and to a lesser extent physics, other sciences don't have "proofs" that allow for a theory to be shown to be absolutely demonstrably true. Nontheless, I think that in the case of evolution, the amount of evidence supporting it is so overwhelming and from so mamy different scientific disciplines that it has to be regarded as fact.

I'd refer anyone who doubts that evolution is a FACT and as is as close to being 'written in stone' (a claim I never made, why can't folks make a rational argument using evidence rather than chucking straw men around) to this site. I don't do cut and paste very much, I do citations.

 

http://pandasthumb.org/

[snakey1]

If the theory of evolution is a FACT by the site you linked tos own admission it therefore by definition is not a theory (I don't mind cutting & pasting your own evidence for you if it helps "Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts. A clear distinction needs to be made between facts (things which can be observed and/or measured) and theories (explanations which correlate and interpret the facts.)"

[Steve Walker]

It's in the nature of science that however strongly the evidence supports the theory you currently believe to be true, you retain the possibility that new evidence will disprove it. It's not like the acceptance of the words of a holy book as unalterable "fact". I have a theory that if I let go of the 10p in my hand, it will fall to the floor - science is open to the possibility that our understanding of gravitation could be wrong, and that if so the coin could instead stay floating in mid-air. We treat it as a fact, though, that it will actually fall, because of the overwhelming body of evidence which leads us to think that the only possible outcome.

 

You don't have to study much biology to find that evolutionary theory permeates, underpins and is validated by every facet of what we know about life on Earth - from animal behaviour to molecular genetics and biochemistry. It's a theory, but it's an "objects always fall towards the ground" kind of theory in that for the everyday purposes of the biological scientist, it can be treated as fact.

[corydoras]

If the theory of evolution is a FACT by the site you linked tos own admission it therefore by definition is not a theory (I don't mind cutting & pasting your own evidence for you if it helps "Any scientific theory must be based on a careful and rational examination of the facts. A clear distinction needs to be made between facts (things which can be observed and/or measured) and theories (explanations which correlate and interpret the facts.)"

A theory is a framework of facts, from which predictions can be made. If a prediction turns out to be false, then this might falsify the whole theory, it would certainly put the theory in jeopardy. The Theory of Evolution predicts that humans and chimpanzees share a common ancestor. I have previously posted video evidence in this thread that shows common descent to be a fact, and this adds more weight to the Theory of Evolution. This evidence has also stood up in a court of law. The molecular genetic and DNA evidence supporting the Theory of DNA evidence is so overwhelming that we do not really need any more transitional fossil evidence to support the theory. It is nice when new fossil evidence shows up, because it is easier to explain fossil evidence than molecular evidence to the general public.

 

Common descent is a FACT. The Theory of Evolution is a FACT.

 

Just for 'balance' here is the website of Michael BEHE. He is a Professor of Biochemistry who does not believe in the theory of Evolution.

 

He is the pet biologist of the Discovery Institute. A think tank dedicated to having Intelligent Design (creationism by another name) taught as science in American Public Schools. Teaching Creationism in American public schools would be illegal, because it would be against the Constitutional Rights of the students.

 

Here is a dramatisation of the Tammy Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover Area School District, et al. trial where you can see Michael BEHE make a complete clot of himself (not for the first time) in the witness stand.

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/programs/ht/wm/3416_09_220.html

 

The people in the clip are actors, but the words spoken are from the trial transcript (which makes very interesting reading, hilarious at times).

 

You can see the entire film that the clip was taken from here, but you need to watch it as 12 separate chapters.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html#ch09

 

Judge John E. Jones III ROCKS! The Discovery Institute assumed that he would be a 'pushover' because he is Republican and a Bush appointee. But Judge John E. Jones III put his politics and his religion behind him and came down on the side of the Law and the Constitution.

[corydoras]

You don't have to study much biology to find that evolutionary theory permeates, underpins and is validated by every facet of what we know about life on Earth - from animal behaviour to molecular genetics and biochemistry. It's a theory, but it's an "objects always fall towards the ground" kind of theory in that for the everyday purposes of the biological scientist, it can be treated as fact.

Well said Steve. We can also see evolution in action, just as surely as we can see that coin drop. Edited January 13, 2009 by corydoras

[kleinboet]

Cory, I stand by my statement on what a theory means.

 

1 - The THEORY of evolution was stated by Charles Darwin who, after looking at differences of a few species, took a leap of faith and said that this happened to ALL species. There have been others who have since agreed. HOWEVER, it was still an educated guess!

 

2 - The THEORY of "animal behaviour was based on the reactions of some mice in mazes and with a leap of faith was declared ALL creatures reacted the same!

 

Some words from a rather famous person:

It is a mistake to believe that a science consists in nothing but conclusively proved propositions, and it is unjust to demand that it should. It is a demand only made by those who feel a craving for authority in some form and a need to replace the religious catechism by something else, even if it be a scientific one. Science in its catechism has but few apodictic precepts; it consists mainly of statements which it has developed to varying degrees of probability. The capacity to be content with these approximations to certainty and the ability to carry on constructive work despite the lack of final confirmation are actually a mark of the scientific habit of mind. -- Freud

[Peter M]

Now i am not sure you should be quoting Freud who i believe is one of the greatest Charlatans of the them all. his approach is completely unscientific yet he is believed with almost religious Zeal bu his followers. He has in my opinion put back psychological treatment of mental disorder by 100 years.

[corydoras]

Cory, I stand by my statement on what a theory means.

 

1 - The THEORY of evolution was stated by Charles Darwin who, after looking at differences of a few species, took a leap of faith and said that this happened to ALL species. There have been others who have since agreed. HOWEVER, it was still an educated guess!

 

2 - The THEORY of "animal behaviour was based on the reactions of some mice in mazes and with a leap of faith was declared ALL creatures reacted the same!

 

Some words from a rather famous person:

It is a mistake to believe that a science consists in nothing but conclusively proved propositions, and it is unjust to demand that it should. It is a demand only made by those who feel a craving for authority in some form and a need to replace the religious catechism by something else, even if it be a scientific one. Science in its catechism has but few apodictic precepts; it consists mainly of statements which it has developed to varying degrees of probability. The capacity to be content with these approximations to certainty and the ability to carry on constructive work despite the lack of final confirmation are actually a mark of the scientific habit of mind. -- Freud

Stand there all night if you like, don't make you right. Your definition is the colloquial definition of theory, not the scientific definition.

 

Did you actually read this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory#Science

 

We can PROVE that evolution is a fact KB, you can walk around with your fingers in your ear singing "la, la, la, I can't hear you' until the end of eternity but that will not change facts.