Athiest bus campaign

[corydoras]

Perhaps sometimes you have to sacrifice your beliefs to satisfy your wife's, I did. We even had a singing nun friend that did a Guitar solo of ''This is The Day'' in the Sacred Heart Church in Bournemouth, it was a grand church with huge stain glass windows and vaulted ceilings, you don't get that at the local Registry Office.

That was thirty one years ago, not bad and well worth forsaking a bit of honour and giving your new bride her wish and not putting yourself first, a good start to any marriage ..agreed?

I did too. Our wedding was complicated by the fact that we wanted two have two wedding ceremonies. One in England and one in France. France has no established church ( for the French) so if one gets married in church in France the marriage will not be recognised by the state, one must be married by the Mairie too. Getting Married in the Mairie was going to be a bureaucratic nightmare because I wasn't French so we thought we would get married in the Catholic Church in Southampton, the one at the bottom of the Avenue. This quickly became an nightmare of the Ecclesiastical variety because the bleeding Bishop in Portsmouth said that we could not marry there unless I became a Catholic. No chance of that. When I was a churchgoer I was a Presbyterian. Presbyterians like to think that they obey all 10 commandments. No graven images,and no God's before me (Catholics churches are bedecked with graven images and the heathens who attend pray to Saints and Mary), but besides that I am an atheist, there are limits. The other problem the His Holiness the Plonker Bishop of Portsmouth had was that we had two kids.

 

After a bit of head scratching we went to the Registry Office in Southampton and spoke to them. They had no problems with us getting wed there, all my wife to be needed was her French ID card. Civil wedding sorted. Wifey still wants Churchey bit though.

 

Back over the Channel, go to see local (Catholic) Parish Priest in Ifs. (Nice old chap and he's dead now so I can't get him into trouble) We explain to him the position of the Catholic Church in England. He is gobsmacked (can't think of a better word, sorry). He said that we MIGHT have a similar problem in France, but then again what the Bishop didn't know about, the Bishop couldn't fret about. He said that he would gladly wed us, in his church. He didn't ask me do anything religious just say 'Oui' when I wink mate sort of thing. There is no concept of best man in French weddings so our daughter carried my ring and our son carried his mother's ring both on little satin cushions.

Edited January 18, 2009 by corydoras

[corydoras]

A quick question for the believers. What, if any would be the impact on your faith if microbial life was discovered on Mars?

[Emma two]

I am struggling to acknowledge how you can accept your spirit world but condemn others? Surely if as you say you believe in such spirits (Shamanism) then surely everything and anything is possible, I do mean everything.

Me..... I don't believe in spirits or Gods, but I try to live and let die for anyone who does believe in such.

Sounds like a huge dilemma for you , can you explain?

 

 

I havn't argued that the god of the bible doesn't exist. However, I have expressed my doubts about the bible explanation of creation and the role and nature of its deity, and were it to exist would that automatically make it worthy of praise?

 

I have clearly indicated, that, were christians to go about their business without impacting negatively upon the lives of others, then I would have no quarrel with them, in the same way as I have no issues with those from any other religion and/or spirituality who do 'their thing' while not trying to involve the rest of us with it. (your 'live and let die' principle).

 

None of this creates a dilemma, huge or otherwise for me, why do you think that it would?

[kleinboet]

Emma2 - In the middle of a debate about the supply of alcohol 7 days a week you posted this little gem:

I share that resentmet, and it goes deeper then not being able to by a drink because the cult of the moment has declared a holy day, although that is a lot of nonsense. The last time I tried to buy a bottle of wine and was refused because it was a sunday I calmly assured the shopkeeper that not a drop of it would get anywhere near a christian, I still didn't get it.

 

At that point I was talking about people having to work for you to be able to bvuy your tipple on a Sunday, ansd then you jump on me for answering!!

You then post this:

I havn't argued that the god of the bible doesn't exist. However, I have expressed my doubts about the bible explanation of creation and the role and nature of its deity, and were it to exist would that automatically make it worthy of praise?

 

I have clearly indicated, that, were christians to go about their business without impacting negatively upon the lives of others, then I would have no quarrel with them, in the same way as I have no issues with those from any other religion and/or spirituality who do 'their thing' while not trying to involve the rest of us with it. (your 'live and let die' principle).

 

 

Your HATREDof all things Christian comes through.

Add to the debate by all means but try and keep it balanced as that does not sound anything like the first posting. By the way, not being able to buy alcohol on a Sunday was NOT a church decision!!!

[Guest Rabbit]

I havn't argued that the god of the bible doesn't exist. However, I have expressed my doubts about the bible explanation of creation and the role and nature of its deity, and were it to exist would that automatically make it worthy of praise?

 

I have clearly indicated, that, were christians to go about their business without impacting negatively upon the lives of others, then I would have no quarrel with them, in the same way as I have no issues with those from any other religion and/or spirituality who do 'their thing' while not trying to involve the rest of us with it. (your 'live and let die' principle).

 

None of this creates a dilemma, huge or otherwise for me, why do you think that it would?

 

Thank you for the reply, I would rather think you have exaggerated the effect that Christians have on others, to pick on the more obtuse aspects of Christianity and use this as a model that the rest of feel compelled to believe in and follow is rather unfair I think most people get out of being a Christian a lot of positives without having to buy into the whole thing.

 

Take away the more obvious claims of the Bible you are left with a pretty good set of rules for folk to follow that would ensure a much happier and peaceful world.

 

Given that booze accounts for more civil disorder, especially for the young I think you and we should accept that some control is a good thing. I see that a lot of examples of a more extreme nature on this thread have been used to paint an unfair image of Religion and true believers who's only motive is a positive one to bring peace and harmony not war and misery.

 

I don't have any axe to grind at al, that is why I hope my thoughts are free from bias, my hope is that Society can find the answers to rid the world of war, starvation, and mass exploitation of the poor, perhaps with a new American President we have finally all woken up to desire a better World.

[Ken L]

At that point I was talking about people having to work for you to be able to bvuy your tipple on a Sunday

Ah, you were talking about the people who work in the shops. Well, my local supermarkets are open 24 hours a day and were it not for Sunday trading laws, they'd be open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

I live in a largely non white, non Christian area and this is reflected in both the staffing and the clients of the stores and yet, your religion dictates when they can work and shop. I'm sorry, KB but I'm struggling to understand why you think that this should be acceptable. Can you explain it to me in words of less than three sylables why you think that Sunday trading should be limited - and don't give me the argument that the staff need a rest. In a shop that's already open 24 hours a day, 6 days of the week, they rotate the staff, otherwise, you wouldn't get much sence out of then by Saturday night.

 

Of course, I accept that in the middle of Surrey or Northumberland, the population will be almost entirely white and that proportion of it that is religious will be overwhelmingly Christian so in those sorts of areas, there would be little or no demand for Sunday shopping at odd hours but a decision on opening hours there should be based on good business sence and not on the fact that Sunday was declared the sabbath day by a bunch of Stone age goat herders.

 

By the way, not being able to buy alcohol on a Sunday was NOT a church decision!!!

Can you back that statement up ? I've just been reading through Hansard regarding the introduction of the Shops Bill (Subsequently The Shops Act) in 1950 and it's very obvious that the influence of and lobying from the church permiated every aspect of it's construction.

[DavyR]

it was a grand church with huge stain glass windows and vaulted ceilings, you don't get that at the local Registry Office.

 

Probably why all these secular but spectacular places (stately homes, castles, etc.) that have been licensed for weddings are proving so popular.

[corydoras]

I think most people get out of being a Christian a lot of positives without having to buy into the whole thing.

That's called Cafeteria Christianity. If a page of thy Bible offend thee rip it out. I've more respect for the Fred Phelpses of this world than the pickers and choosers. No I don't like them, but at least I know where they stand. Edited January 18, 2009 by corydoras

[Steve Walker]

Back over the Channel, go to see local (Catholic) Parish Priest in Ifs. (Nice old chap and he's dead now so I can't get him into trouble) We explain to him the position of the Catholic Church in England. He is gobsmacked (can't think of a better word, sorry). He said that we MIGHT have a similar problem in France, but then again what the Bishop didn't know about, the Bishop couldn't fret about.

 

And that laudable attitude is why the French can live under the transnational governance of the EU without feeling that their traditions and way of life are eroded, and we can't.

[corydoras]

A lot of the French are what I call 'Cultural Catholics' they like the church to be there for ceremonies, hatches, matches and dispatches, but don't go to mass regularly, if at all. Last night I was trying to recall if I had ever seen a crucifix on a wall on any French persons house that I have visited and can't think of one.