Africa

[chesters1]

Look at the malnutrition in Britain thread, I have found the answer!

thats one way

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2661365.stm

[chesters1]

But look at the age distribution chart and the 0-4 year old figures that are undergoing a massive decline. This must be a drop in birth rate or a frighteningly huge infant mortality rate, probably a combination of the two.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/sf-sou...e-_distribution

 

If the poulation of Africa is growing and birth rate/infant mortality figures show that 'breeding' is not the cause then it must be immigration. Probably from places like Zimbabwe and the Congo etc.

 

On the children point, yes there are a lot, many being orphans because of AIDS/HIV and war. I do not accept that Africans from any country are 'breeding' to receive aid and the figures for SA go to prove that. I haven't looked at the other countries yet as we appear to be stuck in SA at the moment.

if it is the infant mortality rate that's high then my statement of deliberately breeding kids into lifestyle that cannot support them is true no?

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/hea_...-mortality-rate

 

it would be interesting to see what it was in religious terms ,if boys are highly prized in some countries perhaps girls are disposed of?

 

its not usualy the females fault as kleiny says its a matter of mindset in the male ,unfortunately a lot of this mindset also has the aids outbreak spiralling up as well .

anyone anywhere if they need it can be handed a handful of johnies unfortunately for some its not manly to use them so they go about impregnating at random.

you may not believe its deliberate breeding for money but i firmly believe theres a troupe of professional starvers that are paid to go from country to country raising aid ,it makes sence why should the state look after its people when for a few quid invested in this troupe the world will politics at its best

 

africa has its starvation troupe to raise money

the west has its terrorism ploy to raise it ,how it all gels together

if we like someone (or can exploit them) they are given aid ,if we dont like them and they refuse to be exploited they are terrorists ,if they are starving and fighting regimes we cant exploit they get aid (because their starving )and guns because they are fighting terrorists

Edited April 4, 2009 by chesters1

[Sportsman]

The problem is that when you attempt to debate with ar5eoles it just gives them an excuse to come out with more and more garbage., as rabbit so accurately puts it, safe in the knowledge that they will not be moderated.

Chesters gets away with saying things that no other person on any other forum I have ever seen, would be allowed.

He is an example of the know nothing, been nowhere armchair "expert" with views based on jealousy and hatred.

Bad cess to you Chesters

I will put you on my ignore list, something I have never done before purely because you encourage me to make posts like this and I don't want to.

It's not your obvious racism or bigotry that annoys me so much, it's the way that you revel in your ignorance and feel moved to share it with the rest of us.

[chesters1]

you can do what you will but i can tell you i have had more threads deleted than all of you so there is none of this "favouritism" you suggest ,perhaps its because you have the false impression every word you say is right and every word i say by opposing your view is wrong???

bugger knows i win some i lose some so somewhere in between were both right and wrong

 

rabbits not so upfront he'l pick a word or phrase out that tickles him then persue the writer into getting it personal then the thread gets deleted rabbit sits back flushed with success

have a count at the pro's and cons in the thread youl find it pretty balanced to the concept of aid being harmful or promoting some benefit to africa so its not all my or those that find my opinion distasteful way by any means.

 

i am allowed to voice my opinion of why and wherefore its a bad idea just as you can voice the opposite ,i certainly wouldnt report or ignore any poster just because he didnt agree with me thats the equivalent of a kid putting his fingers in his ears shouting nananana nana when his being told bad news

probably better not to judge a person who you dont know i could be an african for all you know! bigotry and racism isnt the sole belonging of the white man.

 

i myself love the words racist and bigot it tends to pop up when the accuser hasn't the brains to prove the opposition incorrect in his statements (or ramblings or mish mash) in my case

Edited April 4, 2009 by chesters1

[Sportsman]

Sportsman, I would have expected a much more considered and articulate response than that from you.

 

I honestly believe that my money and time was making no impact at all.

Even when I was in the countries, I could see no real or lasting benefit from what I did.

Why therefore should I throw more good money after bad ?

If you have a lasting solution, then lets hear it, don't just berate me for being honest.

 

Cranfield. I apologise for my ill considered remarks. My excuse is that I was seriously pi55ed off with the remarks made by Kleinboet and Chesters and didn't give you post the thought it deserves.

As for a lasting solution, I don't profess to have one, but I am fairly sure that standing back and watching millions die isn't the answer.

I have been to Africa and I have been in and worked in refugee camps in Chad and Sudan back in the 80s and I do take it personally.

Of course it is true that there are dishonest people in government in some of the countries in Africa.

Of course there are people making money from others problems, but that doesn't mean that we do nothing.

Of course it is true that many African women have more children than is the norm here, but to say that they do it so they can get more aid is one of the more disgusting suggestions I have heard, from an individual well know for his disgusting comments. They have lots of children because they expect most of them to die and they hope that one or two might survive into adulthood to care for them in their old (40s?) age.

People on here talk about the money raised for Africa as a massive amount, well, in the great scheme of thing, for a continent of over 1,000,000,000 people it is a drop in the ocean.

I just hope that my contribution gives one little child a full belly, or pays for simple treatment to stop the diarrhea that they would probably die from otherwise. I have to think in those terms otherwise none of it makes sense.

[Worms]

if it is the infant mortality rate that's high then my statement of deliberately breeding kids into lifestyle that cannot support them is true no?

Perhaps based on western ideals then the word deliberately might fit. Based on the ideals of some of the African countries that I have been to then no, it's called life.

 

Anyway, the infant mortality rate for South Africa is calculated at 55 per 1000 live births and, as such is not particularly high (about 45-50th highest in the world alongside places like Mongolia and Bolivia) so it must be that the birth rate has plummeted. So 'breeding like rabbits' does not fit South Africa no?

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/hea_...-mortality-rate

 

it would be interesting to see what it was in religious terms ,if boys are highly prized in some countries perhaps girls are disposed of?

 

Can't comment on other countries but not to my knowledge in SA, Botswana or Zimbabwe.

 

its not usualy the females fault as kleiny says its a matter of mindset in the male ,unfortunately a lot of this mindset also has the aids outbreak spiralling up as well .

unfortunately for some its not manly to use them so they go about impregnating at random.

 

I don't disagree with this and it is one of the reasons that the AIDS/HIV problem has got out of control. It is certainly a belief in some areas of Southern Africa that AIDS/HIV is a 'white man's disease' and as such they won't catch it This is where education needs funding to get black Africans to spread the word, not white charity missionaries.

 

anyone anywhere if they need it can be handed a handful of johnies

 

I took this out as a separte section because there are some comparisons with your own circumstances here Chesters Most of the people that are being talked about live a long long way from anywhere. They have no transport to get to clinics. There is no such thing as public transport. And they receive no state money for anything. A huge proportion have no electricity so no tv, no papers no advertising hoardings and very few radios. A small minority get free condoms/limited healthcare etc. if the charities get to them with the goods supplied by our (well, perhaps not your) money

 

you may not believe its deliberate breeding for money but i firmly believe theres a troupe of professional starvers that are paid to go from country to country raising aid ,it makes sence why should the state look after its people when for a few quid invested in this troupe the world will politics at its best

 

africa has its starvation troupe to raise money

the west has its terrorism ploy to raise it ,how it all gels together

if we like someone (or can exploit them) they are given aid ,if we dont like them and they refuse to be exploited they are terrorists ,if they are starving and fighting regimes we cant exploit they get aid (because their starving )and guns because they are fighting terrorists

 

I try not to think too hard about what governments do to their people in other countries, it's bad enough in this one. However, I don't believe in your starvation troupe theory. The issue is that poor, starving and sick people are not being helped because they have different ideals and vicious, uncaring greedy governments

 

Chesters, people like you and I, indeed everyone on this forum have the ability to make a difference. If only a small percentage of the money gets to the people in need (i.e. the helpless, downtrodden, sick and hungry) isn't it worth it? I think so which is why I give a little every year. You never know, those few quid might contribute to an enlightened Ghandi of the African continent in a few years time. We can all live in hope, in the mean time I'll cough up a few quid.

[kleinboet]

I have sat and deliberately not posted on this thread to see if any of you could see where I was going with this thread. The answer is this:

 

To Emma2, Sportsman and others who feel very strongly that I am making racist remarks, that I am a bigot etc. I would agree with you 100% if it was Britain!!

The problem here is that we are dealing with AFRICAN culture - not British. Surely this country can't make the same mistake twice!! Teflon Tony and doublyer Invaded Iraq because they were doing terrible things to the population - I agree, but invading them and forcing western culture onto them is not the answer. Wait and see what happens when the British and Americans are no longer there!!!

Look at Saudi Arabia - Worse than Iraq but left alone because of oil!!

 

While I lived in South Africa, I accepted the African culture and always kept it in mind. I did NOT wonder why they keep on having children - I KNEW why - I have seen on old man being treated better than his children and understood.

 

Tha answer for Africa as a whole is NOT to change their culture, but steer it into the direction of working in unison with there sworn enemies - Other Tribes!!!

 

What people here do not realise is that Africa is like quicksand - it looks almost idyllic but is filled with the desire to eradicate anyone who does not treat it properly!

 

Just in South Africa There are different Tribes (if you want, I'll name them) who hate one another with a passion and there are murders between the tribes on a daily basis.

 

Please do not try and use British ideals of culture to Africa as it won't work!!!

[Worms]

A point that hasn't been raised is this.

 

I have been to Africa to work, and for holidays. I don't do the guided trip thing, I head off into the bush with my brother-in-law and a 4 wheel drive, with water, beer, food and a tent.

 

I have met and worked with black Africans from politicians to herdsmen. I have met and worked with white African company directors, to bush guides. Generally they are all friendly but THE friendliest have always been those out in the bush, those with the least to offer. They are the ones that will offer you a bowl of their maize porridge and shelter when they have only a pot of maize porridge and a mud hut.

 

That is why I always take extra clean water and aspirins and knives and buttons and little things as gifts. Things that to them are luxury and essential items (like our plasma tv's and patio heaters). I leave old pairs of boots and old shirts as well. Saves bringing it back on the plane and I can buy more tribal made goods to bring back as gifts and support them a bit more.

 

I took a photograph of one old chap, I sent a copy to my B-I-L as he was going back to the same place. He said the old chap was so happy he cried, amazed that a white man from the UK should remember someone as insignificant as himself......

 

The ones that I have had the honour to meet have been utterly unselfish, caring people. If only western society held the same simple views eh?

Edited April 4, 2009 by Worms

[Guest Rabbit]

you can do what you will but i can tell you i have had more threads deleted than all of you so there is none of this "favouritism" you suggest ,perhaps its because you have the false impression every word you say is right and every word i say by opposing your view is wrong???

bugger knows i win some i lose some so somewhere in between were both right and wrong

 

rabbits not so upfront he'l pick a word or phrase out that tickles him then persue the writer into getting it personal then the thread gets deleted rabbit sits back flushed with success

have a count at the pro's and cons in the thread youl find it pretty balanced to the concept of aid being harmful or promoting some benefit to africa so its not all my or those that find my opinion distasteful way by any means.

 

i am allowed to voice my opinion of why and wherefore its a bad idea just as you can voice the opposite ,i certainly wouldnt report or ignore any poster just because he didnt agree with me thats the equivalent of a kid putting his fingers in his ears shouting nananana nana when his being told bad news

probably better not to judge a person who you dont know i could be an african for all you know! bigotry and racism isnt the sole belonging of the white man.

 

i myself love the words racist and bigot it tends to pop up when the accuser hasn't the brains to prove the opposition incorrect in his statements (or ramblings or mish mash) in my case

 

i never wish that threads get deleted, and you will be hard pressed to find a thread where I had a hand it it's removal. Fact is I have to be very careful about what I type as the mods do like a pot shot at Rabbit, unlike you and yours who can seemingly get away with anything it would seem, But hey that's the way it is, as I said I try and steer clear of your postings because they are filled with bigotry and add do nothing to but descend whatever topic into a slanging match, as this one has become.

I will consider like Sportsman ignoring you, so clean up your act!!

[kleinboet]

Worms, You have seen first hand how happy the average black indiginous man is with his lot. He CHOOSES to live that way, as there are always offers of work in the "big cities" for them. You can't bribe them (they don't use money in the bush - their wealth is cattle, the more you have the "richer" you are) If you are close to a big water, these same people that you met will show you the best fishing spots! Why not? - there is enough for all!!

To all of you having a go at Chesters - I haven't seen anything "racist" in his posts. He is describing black Africans as they are!

Edited April 4, 2009 by kleinboet