Power of Prayer?

[ColinW]

That nutjob who let his daughter die without medical treatment while he prayed for her recovery has been found guilty of second degree reckless homicide (his wife was convicted a couple of months ago).

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8180116.stm

 

Now he can spend the next twenty five years praying it won't hurt when Gloria, his twenty stone queer cellmate, bends him over a table. I hope "God" doesn't listen to those prayers either.

[corydoras]

That nutjob who let his daughter die without medical treatment while he prayed for her recovery has been found guilty of second degree reckless homicide (his wife was convicted a couple of months ago).

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8180116.stm

 

Now he can spend the next twenty five years praying it won't hurt when Gloria, his twenty stone queer cellmate, bends him over a table. I hope "God" doesn't listen to those prayers either.

I am glad that the Neumann's are probably going to go to prison, but don't count on it yet. They will no doubt appeal. Many US States have laws that grant immunity for this type of crime if it is committed for religious reasons. I think it is a first for Wisconsin. Wisconsin is a stronghold of Christian Scientists who only believe in 'faith healing' and not modern medicine.

 

Neumann's jury — six men and six women — deliberated about 15 hours over two days before convicting him. At one point, jurors asked the judge whether Neumann's belief in faith healing made him "not liable" for not taking his daughter to the hospital even if he knew she wasn't feeling well.[from AP]

 

Last month, an Oregon jury convicted a man of misdemeanor criminal mistreatment for relying on prayer instead of seeking medical care for his 15-month-old daughter who died of pneumonia and a blood infection in March 2008. Both of the girl's parents were acquitted of a more serious manslaughter charge.[AP report]

[Ken L]

I didn't think it'd be long before this subject came up, and I wasn't disapointed.

 

It could be argued that Dale Neumann is as much a victim in this as his daughter.

 

He is a product of a country that activly endorses the seeking of intersession by a supernatural being as part of its education system.

Although "the power of prayer" in healing the sick has been conclusivly proven to be a tissue of lies, the state permits daily television broadcasts and church meetings where these lies are preached as truth without any form of disclaimer.

He simply believed the information that was presented to him selectivly and in the context of the beliefs of other members of his community - the girl did afterall die "on the floor of the family's rural home as people surrounded her and prayed", so there were a lot of other people there.

 

The conditions that lead Mr Neumann to sit back and watch his daughter die arn't just present in the US, they're present in the UK as well and with an ever increasing number of faith schools and an apparently unregulated religious television network on satalite television, it's only a matter of time before we have similar cases in the UK - we have one forum member who believes that a cold reader is really recieving messages from "the other side" so that's not really a far fetched position.

[chesters1]

I didn't think it'd be long before this subject came up, and I wasn't disapointed.

 

It could be argued that Dale Neumann is as much a victim in this as his daughter.

 

He is a product of a country that activly endorses the seeking of intersession by a supernatural being as part of its education system.

Although "the power of prayer" in healing the sick has been conclusivly proven to be a tissue of lies, the state permits daily television broadcasts and church meetings where these lies are preached as truth without any form of disclaimer.

He simply believed the information that was presented to him selectivly and in the context of the beliefs of other members of his community - the girl did afterall die "on the floor of the family's rural home as people surrounded her and prayed", so there were a lot of other people there.

 

The conditions that lead Mr Neumann to sit back and watch his daughter die arn't just present in the US, they're present in the UK as well and with an ever increasing number of faith schools and an apparently unregulated religious television network on satalite television, it's only a matter of time before we have similar cases in the UK - we have one forum member who believes that a cold reader is really recieving messages from "the other side" so that's not really a far fetched position.

 

not "an" but many and some strange ones as well ,the christian ones still using the louder you proclaim god the more he listens attitude

the african ones although using english is a form my ears cannot fathom.

the moslems up the road televise their knees up

Edited August 2, 2009 by chesters1

[Alan Stubbs]

What would kleinboet do?

 

[bluezulu]

What would kleinboet do?

 

ring the door bell!

[corydoras]

I didn't think it'd be long before this subject came up, and I wasn't disapointed.

 

It could be argued that Dale Neumann is as much a victim in this as his daughter.

 

He is a product of a country that activly endorses the seeking of intersession by a supernatural being as part of its education system.

Although "the power of prayer" in healing the sick has been conclusivly proven to be a tissue of lies, the state permits daily television broadcasts and church meetings where these lies are preached as truth without any form of disclaimer.

He simply believed the information that was presented to him selectivly and in the context of the beliefs of other members of his community - the girl did afterall die "on the floor of the family's rural home as people surrounded her and prayed", so there were a lot of other people there.

 

The conditions that lead Mr Neumann to sit back and watch his daughter die arn't just present in the US, they're present in the UK as well and with an ever increasing number of faith schools and an apparently unregulated religious television network on satalite television, it's only a matter of time before we have similar cases in the UK - we have one forum member who believes that a cold reader is really recieving messages from "the other side" so that's not really a far fetched position.

I don't think we can make that defence for this jerk. He had been to seminary to study to be a Pentecostal preacher.

 

This is nothing new in the Land of the Free, where a parent's belief in a sky daddy can take precedence over a child's right to live. I won't post any links on here but if you have a strong stomach, search Google for "Alex Dale Morris".Alex's story made me weep like a baby.

Edited August 6, 2009 by corydoras

[kleinboet]

What would I do? Call the man an ass!!

I am reminded of the story of the Mormon church Elder who was trapped in floods. He had already had to move upstairs and was praying when he heard a knock on the window. Two RNLI men in a boat offered to take him to safety, to which he replied his lord would save him! Some three hours later he was standing on the roof when a helicopter offered to take him to safety - they received the same reply as the RNLI men.

 

He drowned

 

Upon meeting his Lord, he complained that nothing in heaven was done to save him.

 

To which the reply cam "But I sent a boat and then a helicopter to save you!!"

 

Technology has advanced in order to save lives, not have prats stand on their religion, saying that God and not man will save them!!!

Edited August 6, 2009 by kleinboet

[Ken L]

What would I do? Call the man an ass!!

I am reminded of the story of the Mormon church Elder who was trapped in floods. He had already had to move upstairs and was praying when he heard a knock on the window. Two RNLI men in a boat offered to take him to safety, to which he replied his lord would save him! Some three hours later he was standing on the roof when a helicopter offered to take him to safety - they received the same reply as the RNLI men.

 

He drowned

 

Upon meeting his Lord, he complained that nothing in heaven was done to save him.

 

To which the reply cam "But I sent a boat and then a helicopter to save you!!"

 

Technology has advanced in order to save lives, not have prats stand on their religion, saying that God and not man will save them!!!

 

Interesting.

Where do you draw the line between human intervention and dogma though ?

If you had a Staphylococcus aureus infection, would you take a standard broad spectrum antibiotic or would you accept that the organism that was infecting you has evolved in the last 30 years and insist on treatment appropriate for MRSA ?

 

If you would go with the latter, where do you supose the drug resistant bugs come from ?

[corydoras]

Interesting.

Where do you draw the line between human intervention and dogma though ?

If you had a Staphylococcus aureus infection, would you take a standard broad spectrum antibiotic or would you accept that the organism that was infecting you has evolved in the last 30 years and insist on treatment appropriate for MRSA ?

 

If you would go with the latter, where do you supose the drug resistant bugs come from ?

KB may have hs faults, but he does not deny the Theory of Evolution. At least I have always understood this from his posts.