Power of Prayer?

[Emma two]

I am curious to know why the word "racist" always produces the same result.

 

Is that why you introduced it into this thread?

[The Flying Tench]

Hence my remark (only partially facetious) about helping the victim along with toad venom in his mealies. If I were a witch doctor I would trust poison rather than an invisible ally. Naturally, I do not share your belief in "evil spirits" (other than waragi - made by distilling banana wine and fortifying the result with meths ) and would invoke auto-suggestion and poison rather than the supernatural.

The cases I know of are second-hand data, but I don't think could be explained by poison. For example a girl in a university who made verbal attacks on the Satanist Society. She then claimed to see 3D images of the group intimidating her in her locked bedroom at night (she had no record of excessive imagination etc). When questioned the group admitted they had met and attempted to do this telepathically. A missionary couple with a good relationship found it had become fractious for no apparent reason. After a few days they prayed, and immediately afterwards found a little box with a piece of paper inside with a nasty spell against them. They burnt the charm, and immediately the good relationship was restored. They later met one of the people who had left the charm and he said he was surprised they were still alive. It interested me that they found the charm after prayer, and that the man expected the spell to work without telling them. Of course one can't base too much on just two stories, but it interests me that missionaries, including doctors, who are sceptical of this kind of thing before going overseas often come to believe in such spiritual powers from experience. And such people are of course well aware of the power of suggestion and poison.

 

Incidently, I would not want to be too dogmatic about how much to attribute to evil (or other) spirits. I believe this is an

area where there is a lot we don't know!

[The Flying Tench]

John, if prayer "has to be in accordance with God's will" what is the point of that prayer in the first place? By that logic the event prayed for is going to happen anyway.

 

Most Christian people who are terminally ill get extensively prayed for, but die anyway. (the same obviously applies to many other religions) So presumably the prayers for life to be spared are in effect an attempt to change divine will. Attempting to change "divine will" seems pretty futile, and might even be seen as a form of blasphemy, although it would take a brave (or foolish) pastor to say so.

 

I suppose an acceptable prayer might be phrased "grant xxx peace". Then either recovery or death could be seen as a prayer answered.

 

Christians have a variety of views on this, but many would distinguish between God's permitted will and his direct will. To pray for things to be in accordance with his permitted will would, as you say, be pointless as that would happen anyway. An example of praying in accordance with his direct will might be for my overcoming a temper or some such problem - not inevitable, but possible I believe with my co-operation and his help.

 

Re the example of the terminally ill I think most christians would see it very much the way you do. I think all involved in healing ministry would see death as a kind of healing in some circumstances. But I gave an example in an earlier post where (rightly or wrongly) I felt 'led' to pray for complete healing, and even though this was not answered, and may have, in a sense, been the wrong prayer, a significant improvement in the person's quality of life took place. An example also comes to mind from the book 'Intercessor' about the life of Rees Howell. The man was dying of TB and had no chance according to all of the doctors, but RH claimed that God had said he would be healed, and gave the date, a month or two ahead, and the hour. I must say I would have been getting pretty nervous as the hour arrived, but the man was totally and instantaneously healed at the moment predicted! Admittedly he did know of RH's prediction, so you could say it was placebo effect. Hmmm. There has to be a limit to placebo effect, doesn't there? Though I don't deny that faith is a big part of it.

[craig carr]

i was cured of smoking with nothing more than pills for 3 months .had i thought it would work would indeed be a miracle before i started

i cured myself really were the pills real? ,no one forced me to take them !who knows but god provided the tobacco and no amount of prayers from millions (through the years people have died smoking it) got him to kill the damned plant worldwide

 

god does not exist you know that ,the overall positive effect one may have perhaps does but positiveness doesn't need a god in reality just a general direction.

if god was that great why would he allow people to get sick? this is never thought off just the miracle when they no longer are ,crazy dangerous thinking!

 

if god was omnipotent why did he allow oil to form millions of years before his followers believe he formed the earth so it could be used to knock kids down with cars ?

is god careless with his planning or just plain negligent ?who needs a god like that.

why do people need a being to blame or praise for things that happen randomly and for no logical reason? ,its gods work / hand when nice things happen its his mysterious ways when bad things do ,laughable ,s.hit happens god or no god ,nice things too

 

I'm more of the Big Bang man myself, i fell off my shed roof in january and broke both my heels, one very bad and now i have to walk with a caine. i dont think its down to lack of fath more to do with the amount of I P A. i still went fishing in a wheelchair most weeks ( god willing )

[corydoras]

I'm more of the Big Bang man myself, i fell off my shed roof in january and broke both my heels, one very bad and now i have to walk with a caine. i dont think its down to lack of fath more to do with the amount of I P A. i still went fishing in a wheelchair most weeks ( god willing )

Different kind of Big Bang, but maybe his guy should have said thanks to the lift repairman, and not to his god.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/10/devout_catholic/

Edited September 10, 2009 by corydoras

[Guest Rabbit]

By "most" I suppose you mean yourself (another form of the Royal "we"?)

 

The effect of the dispute in question was a storm that extended way outside the original teacup and is just ONE of many factors contributing to the present world situation.

 

I am curious to know why the word "racist" always produces the same result. In whatever sense or context the word is used, out rushes PC Rabbit and arrests the first person in sight.

PC Rabbit don't think I know anyone less PC than me, but dont let that get in the way of your taunts, what I will rise to is those thinly disguised comments that are by their nature just as abhorant as a full rant, except they are sly in their nature and just as distasteful.

Like Emma said YOU introduced racism when there was no need to whatsoever, that is why I questioned your motives as to why you you should do so, (you still havn't explained that bit....) but you prefer to blame Rabbit Odd very odd

[corydoras]

That nutjob who let his daughter die without medical treatment while he prayed for her recovery has been found guilty of second degree reckless homicide (his wife was convicted a couple of months ago).

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8180116.stm

 

Now he can spend the next twenty five years praying it won't hurt when Gloria, his twenty stone queer cellmate, bends him over a table. I hope "God" doesn't listen to those prayers either.

I told you the b@stards would walk Colin. 10 years probation and 30 days in jail for the next 6 years. It's enough to make me want to puke!

 

I don't EVER want to hear any American criticise any UK justice system ever again in my life.

Youtube Video ->

Edited October 13, 2009 by corydoras

[billy50000]

cory they should have got the death sentance like they gave thier daughter!

 

god!!!

 

ummm i think not but a man maybe.

 

there are many storys of people having healing hands but im a sceptic about that to!

and even if they do have healing hands it doesnt make them a GOD!!

 

once the tribes of many areas across the globe believed in gods etc but we (id assume)have moved on since!

letting someone die because of your belief is crazy no matter what and you should be punished with the FULL extent of the law no matter what!!!!!!

 

tbh letting a child die because of something you believe in is mad and deffinately brain washing.

a child has no concept of god or anything related to it and to make the choice for the child is abuse and sick.

 

i.e not allowing a child a blood transfusion in life or death emergencies because of a belief you hold is abuse and controlling as the child has no education to have its own decision.

 

its child abuse and neglect no matter what!

 

any sane thinking,educated person would not turn down help to save a child or person they LOVE!

 

if being a simple minded slave to something you cannot see or prove is the divine then you can have religion and keep it!!

 

we have brains to use and improve thus why we have scientists and ever improving medicines and treatments,to shut away evolution is insane and just mental.

maybe they like staying in a void of non improvement but not me ( its normal peoples right to learn and better ourselves)(resistance is futile:)lol

 

my opinon is a mental home for the lot of them as they are clearly mad and make me look positivly sane(though not according to my docs)

 

i mean this about extreme christians etc not just the casual believers (not that i see any point in either)still oddballs in my books,but each to thier own

Edited October 13, 2009 by billy50000

[Guest Rabbit]

 

and even if they do have healing hands it doesnt make them a GOD!!

 

What then Billy?

 

Surely if anyone has 'Healing Hands' they have supernatural powers, and would not be far removed from being a 'God'.

Jesus laid is hands on the sick and healed them, he was the 'Son Of God' remember, but pretty God like all the same

 

Healing Hands equates to anything is possible, even God.

 

Do you believe in Ghosts?

[billy50000]

yep i believe in ghosts as at least they are supposed to be the remainder of the ones that have already past (with proof of life)

 

well most:)

 

as for healing hands, well that could be anything but certainly not godlike!

 

it could be explained like (electric pulses that run through our bodys hitting pressure points thus giving the effect of healing, a bit like the way massage makes you feel good for a while)

 

son of god hehehe and mary had an immaculate conception,and the chances of that happening is like me walking around with my head cut off

 

some faiths really make me laugh.

 

so I guess god made marys kid!ummm

 

god i do love the story,why didnt he just tranform into joseph and nail mary?he was god wasnt he? he could do anything.

 

anything to save the disgrace of having the mother of jesus known for DOING IT!!!

 

:):):)LOL

 

the further you read the worse and thin it gets!

 

and where she give birth again!!!oh yeah the sandpit and those superior humans (cough cough splutter LOL )

 

Its time we dropped the christian shod from our schools too! next we will be teaching them how a women can get pregnant without a man or sperm donor oh yeah toilet seats

 

yep just as stupid!

 

other than this comedy book called the bible which was made up by a really bored and overactive imaginative person!

everyones entitled to their beliefs just trying to understand what makes sensible humans put so much trust in ,well NOTHING!!

Edited October 13, 2009 by billy50000