Power of Prayer?

[Alan Stubbs]

Reminds me of that song that goes something like:

 

"Don't bend down near the lonely goat-herd,

Yodel-o-de-yodel-o-de-yo-ho-ho,

If you do, then you might get bug-herd,

Yodel-o-de-yodel-o-de-o..."

 

 

 

I've just heard 3 of my colleagues singing this to the Op's Manager...who is a tad light in the loafers.

 

Class, Davy!!!!!!!!

[Vagabond]

Richard Dawkins thinks that the capacity to believe in a god (or gods?) "is a by-product of enhanced intelligence". Not sure what I think about that...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbrain.shtml

From your link

......charismatic religious figures. Could any of them have been epileptics? The visions seen by Bible characters like Moses or Saint Paul are consistent with Rudi's and Gwen's, but there is no way to diagnose TLE in people who lived so long ago.

 

ICI used to market an anti-epileptic drug under the Trade Name of "Mysoline"

 

Back in the 1960s their promotional literature included details of "famous people" who were epileptics.

 

One of them was a religious figure (I won't say which lest the usual chorus of "racist" emenates from the usual suspects) Suffice to say, the followers of said figure almost started a holy war and the advert was hastily withdrawn

[The Flying Tench]

What would I do? Call the man an ass!!

I am reminded of the story of the Mormon church Elder who was trapped in floods. He had already had to move upstairs and was praying when he heard a knock on the window. Two RNLI men in a boat offered to take him to safety, to which he replied his lord would save him! Some three hours later he was standing on the roof when a helicopter offered to take him to safety - they received the same reply as the RNLI men.

 

He drowned

 

Upon meeting his Lord, he complained that nothing in heaven was done to save him.

 

To which the reply cam "But I sent a boat and then a helicopter to save you!!"

 

Technology has advanced in order to save lives, not have prats stand on their religion, saying that God and not man will save them!!!

 

Excuse me entering the fray rather late, when people have moved away from the original theme of the power (or otherwise) of prayer. You won't be surprised that I believe fully in the power of prayer! I agree with KB above that God often answers through doctors, advances in medecine etc, but I have also had quite a few experiences of God answering (I believe) more directly through prayer. I have never healed (I don't mean by any power of mine you will realise) a blind or deaf person yet (though one person who was blind in one eye recovered enough vision to see how many fingers I was holding in front of his eye) but I have healed a number of backs, sometimes instantly. I have met people who have healed blind people, deaf people, had people get out of wheel-chairs etc. There is an extraordinary missionary in Mozambique called Heidi Baker who has almost 100 percent success with deaf people. I went out there last summer in the hope of seeing this in action. Unfortunately Heidi was at a different centre when I went, but i met people who had seen it and assured me it was true. I met an African youth worker there and asked if he had ever healed (through prayer) a blind man. He said 'yes, one blind person - and one person in a wheelchair when I visited USA - but I fasted 10 days for that one, people said I was crazy!'. I simply don't understand why fasting should help, but a number of people I have spoken to have found that it does.

 

Of course it's a complex issue, and I accept that many cases are not scientifically verified. The Roman Catholic church is very strict in what it will count as a miracle at Lourdes. From memory they require reports from two doctors, and the condition has to be one that couldn't have been cured by medecine. I think that is a bit tough. Suppose I prayed for someone with a cancer and the cancer immediately disappeared, I would consider that pretty miraculous, but as I understand it the RCs wouldn't count it as a miracle if it was felt chemotherapy could have solved the problem. But even with such strict criteria some cases are accepted as miracles, though only one or two a year, I think.

 

One issue for me as a christian is that there is no case in the New Testament of Jesus praying for someone to be healed. Rather he called out faith from people. often he said 'your faith has healed you'. So there is an issue of how much of the healing is caused by the prayer and how much by the faith. Certainly prayer at a distance is less likely to bring an instant healing in my experience than 'prayer ministry' where a person's faith is encouraged.

 

I don't claim to understand all that is happening when people are healed through prayer, and I accept that christians don't have a monopoly - though in India I understand Hindus will sometimes come and ask christians to pray for a sick relative because they recognise that prayer in the name of Jesus Christ is powerful.

 

Phew! I realise I am miles away from most of you on this. But I have to say that in my experience prayer is powerful in a way that can't all be explained by psychology or coincidence.

 

John

[Guest Rabbit]

From your link

 

 

ICI used to market an anti-epileptic drug under the Trade Name of "Mysoline"

 

Back in the 1960s their promotional literature included details of "famous people" who were epileptics.

 

One of them was a religious figure (I won't say which lest the usual chorus of "racist" emenates from the usual suspects) Suffice to say, the followers of said figure almost started a holy war and the advert was hastily withdrawn

 

Don't understand that comment at all, why would anyone consider that epilepsy should even be remotely considered as a 'racist' issue?

[chesters1]

my mrs is epileptic ,i suppose in olden times she would have been accused of speaking in tongues .when she has her petit mals i cant understand a thing she says but in her mind she's speaking normaly.in a grand mal i expect in pre medical knowledge days she was probably possessed?

not sure how you could determine epilepsy from a host of other similar traits from people (religious or otherwise) from times past.

for ten minutes or so she acts as if she's in a trance so perhaps half the things mentioned in the religeous tomes are nothing more than epilepsy which can be "cured" (she's perfectly fine an hour later albeit very tired) albeit until the next episode by this time the religeous writer would be gone from the scene following his "story"

 

the body is very good at curing itself if you get the motivation ,its also very good at fooling itself its broken perhaps the cured sick from biblical days were just malingerers (being sick was an employment advancement for beggars) or the cured just thought they were ill in the first place.

provide the medical reports pre and post "miracle" and we'll have a gander

Edited September 6, 2009 by chesters1

[Vagabond]

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Don't understand that comment at all, why would anyone consider that epilepsy should even be remotely considered as a 'racist' issue?

 

I'm not surprised you don't understand, given your history.

 

It is not the epilepsy that is the "racist" issue, but the identity of the religious figure whom ICI alleged to be epileptic. The sect concerned (not me) got very upset about the "insult" (as they perceived it) to their religious icon.

 

I have not mentioned the sect concerned, to avoid bringing "race" into it, but don't let lack of evidence influence your reaction!

[Vagabond]

You won't be surprised that I believe fully in the power of prayer!

 

Certainly I would agree that a person who strongly believes he/she is a special case for divine intervention could well benefit from prayer (their own or others). It is just an extension of the "wholistic care" a patient ought to have in hospital - the lack of which is currently being discussed on the NHS thread. If the patient feels cared for, whether by nursing staff or "invisible friends" then that has to be a plus - also known as the placebo effect.

 

However, some of you may be interested in Francis Galton's investigation on the statistical efficacy of prayer, in which he found that the longevity of people who had large numbers of followers praying for them (monarchs, popes, missionaries and the like) was no different from that of the great unwashed.

http://www.abelard.org/galton/galton.htm

 

 

 

but I have healed a number of backs, sometimes instantly.

You are not alone!

 

I once healed Chevin's back. He had been in considerable pain, and had been messed about with physiotherapy and painkillers, and more seriously, it was limiting his fishing

 

"Why not see a really crack orthopaedic surgeon? " I asked, "I have enough contacts to find you one"

 

I did, (a Harley Street man) , and sent Chevin full details.

 

Got a letter from Chev two days later.

 

"Thanks for the instant cure - when I saw this guy's list of fees, my back felt better straight away!"

[Emma two]

I'm not surprised you don't understand, given your history.

 

It is not the epilepsy that is the "racist" issue, but the identity of the religious figure whom ICI alleged to be epileptic. The sect concerned (not me) got very upset about the "insult" (as they perceived it) to their religious icon.

 

I have not mentioned the sect concerned, to avoid bringing "race" into it, but don't let lack of evidence influence your reaction!

 

 

D'you mean Mohammed (peace be upon him)? The suggestions that he suffered from epilepsy are well documented. If that suggestion was interpreted as a slight upon him then it wouldn't be a racist issue, provided that it is acceptanced that Islam is a religion and not a race.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Emma two

[The Flying Tench]

"Thanks for the instant cure - when I saw this guy's list of fees, my back felt better straight away!"

 

[chesters1]

D'you mean Mohammed (peace be upon him)? The suggestions that he suffered from epilepsy are well documented. If that suggestion was interpreted as a slight upon him then it wouldn't be a racist issue, provided that it is acceptanced that Islam is a religion and not a race.

 

i cannot see mohammed even had suggestions he was epileptic ,epilepsy is hard to pin down and many thousands are still misdiagnosed so how the hell some illiterate healer 1500 years ago could diagnose it is beyond me.

probably he was just as much a loony as his followers are ,probably jesus was nailed up to keep him still because he had it too (no peace etc in my mention)

in Mark (9:14-29) the chaps merely devil ridden

in 1494 he would have been a witch

as i have said before gods in your head

Youtube Video ->

luckily my mrs doesn't have this form it can kill you ,turn you loopy or into a god or other people into gods.

my conclusion is the prof should stop having so many hand shandies and get a good night kip.

the "i see it all now" is a drug state as well thats also well documented ,in the case of the chap with loonies eyes in the vid i suggest his vodka was chinese

Edited September 6, 2009 by chesters1