Halloween banned!

[DavyR]

There are two main strands of opposition to the way that Halloween is currently "celebrated" in the UK.

 

One is from the Christian church, which wrongly equates the festival with "devil worship", when it in fact celebrates the Celtic New Year or Samhain. BTW, Flying Tench, there have been extensive and fruitless attempts to find evidence of "Satanic ritual abuse" dating back to the 1980s and I have yet to see any convincing evidence that it exists/existed except in the imaginations of impressionable individuals.

 

The other, more prosaic, is from those, often elderly, who object to being intimidated by gangs of masked kids demanding money with menaces and plastering thier doors or cars with eggs if refused. There's a big difference between "Trick or Treat" and the harmless private parties with games such as "ducking for apples" which used to be the way Halloween was celebrated between the mid 1800s and the 1970s before it became commercialised and Americanised.

 

Most "quaint" old English calendar customs (often involving masks or other disguises)did in fact fall into the "demanding money with menaces" category, which is why they were mostly suppressed in Victorian times and replaced by family party games on the same dates.

[DavyR]

Originally posted by Alan Fawcett:

Pagans have never tried to destroy anyone else's religeon [QB]

 

Well, to be fair, Alan, I think the pagan Romans had a pretty good shot at stamping out the early Christians! The pagan Vikings didn't do too badly, either...

 

[QB] Just recently there seems to be a massive amount of pagans/witches/warlocks/druids ect appearing all over the place...well they haven't just appeared out of nowhere we have always been here but like our ancestors we kept quiet and hidden for fear of repraisals but as we are more accepted now we are begining to show ourselves and hold our worship out in the open where it should be held. [QB]

 

Unfortunately, there is no evidence of an unbroken "underground" pagan tradition in this country. Most modern pagans use rituals and ceremonies that they have developed themselves or that date back to early modern "revivals". See "The Triumph of the Moon" by Ronald Hutton (Oxford University Press) for a scholarly account by a respected historian who is himself a practising pagan.

 

[QB] Oh and just so its clear to those who don't know...not all paganistic groups are followers/practioners of wicka, that was just another scare story invented by another religeon who's leaders were worried their followers may revert back to their original beliefs.

 

Alan, don't you think this gives the impression that there's something sinister about Wicca? I'm sure Little Onions who posts on here will have something to say about that!

[chesters1]

theres christianity and christianity ,you all saw last year the 2xA4 list of things you must not have done to ensure your a good christian ,if youve listened to rock music ,done a bit of yoga or have tatoos or piercings etc your a devil worshiper

yet this group (and its a very large house and grounds) gets council tax relief and no doupt hand outs in great amoungnts from supporters ,no control over the vile teachings it spouts and heaven knows what the ex trainees do once trained puts Islam in the realms of noddy books

 

[ 06. October 2005, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: chesters1 ]

[Sportsman]

Is it just me? I dont remember "celebrating" halloween as a kid. It just seems to have become another excuse (like Fathers day, Mothers day and lots of other "days")for the shops to sell a load of expensive tat.

It seems to have developed into it's current form over the last 10 - 15 years.

Halloween as I see it celebrated around here, has nothing to do with any religion, Pagan or otherwise.

Personally I have no religion so if the Pagans or Druids want to do their thing it makes as much sense to me as the Vicars or Priests doing theirs.

[DavyR]

Sportsman:

Is it just me? I dont remember "celebrating" halloween as a kid. It just seems to have become another excuse (like Fathers day, Mothers day and lots of other "days")for the shops to sell a load of expensive tat.

Hence my comment about it becoming commercialised and Americanised. When I was a kid, we used to do ducking for apples and putting nuts in the fire to see which one jumped out first and all that sort of thing. A lot of people had already given up on Halloween because it was just too close to Bonfire Night. It could be argued that the Church/State wanted to encourage celebration of November 5th to draw attention away from Halloween, which was perceived as a more sinister festival because of its association with the spirits of the dead.

 

Bonfires were always associated with Samhain/Halloween and were then transferred to November 5th. They now very much take second place to the fireworks, if they are used at all. For a *real* bonfire night celebration, you need to go to Lewes in Sussex, where several Bonfire Parties parade through the streets with flaming torches and burning effigies. It's supposed to commemorate the burning of some Protestant martyrs in the reign of Queen Mary, but the atmosphere is decidedly pagan!

[Elton]

Sportsman:

Is it just me? I dont remember "celebrating" halloween as a kid. It just seems to have become another excuse (like Fathers day, Mothers day and lots of other "days")for the shops to sell a load of expensive tat.

It seems to have developed into it's current form over the last 10 - 15 years.

Halloween as I see it celebrated around here, has nothing to do with any religion, Pagan or otherwise.

Personally I have no religion so if the Pagans or Druids want to do their thing it makes as much sense to me as the Vicars or Priests doing theirs.

We never celebrated it as kids, either.

 

What I find a shame is that we get loads of 'trick or treaters', but no 'penny for the guyers'

[Ken L]

"putting nuts in the fire to see which one jumped out first"

 

Painfull !

Did you do a "weiner roast" at the same time ?

[DonRamos]

DavyR:

Originally posted by Sportsman:

[qb] For a *real* bonfire night celebration, you need to go to Lewes in Sussex, where several Bonfire Parties parade through the streets with flaming torches and burning effigies. It's supposed to commemorate the burning of some Protestant martyrs in the reign of Queen Mary, but the atmosphere is decidedly pagan!

I can contest to this. Lewes Bonfire is something that must be experienced by all.

 

 

On to the original point, there are just far too many people spending far too much time deciding what is best for everybody else to do.

 

Ban this, ban that, ban the other thing. :mad: And it's all supposed to be in the greater good. Absolute tosh as far as I am concerned.

 

I have read the bible. I have also read the koran, the celestine profecy, Gaia theory (which is fascinating) and numerous other theories on what life is all about, where we come from and what happens to us after we die.

 

Organised mass religion is an excellent way to bring hope to people who otherwise would have none. That is what is does extremely well and that is ALL IT SHOULD DO in my opinion.

 

Religion, councils, and other people in positions of power should stop worrying about what needs banning and start working on fixing the inherant problems of our country, and the world for that matter.

 

Once these can be addressed then maybe we can all start getting on a bit better and stop blaming our problems on the other guy.

[DavyR]

quote:

---

Originally posted by DonRamos:

[QB]

---

I can contest to this. Lewes Bonfire is something that must be experienced by all.

 

Or, if you wanted to agree with me, you could always *attest* to it!

[DonRamos]

Or I could refuse to detest.

 

Grammar was never my strong point