Otters Force Out Fishing Club

[Sportsman]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4881240.Ot...arp_at_fishery/

 

http://www.gofishing.co.uk/Angling-Times/S...nd-John-Wilson/

 

REGARDING FENCING GRANTS

 

Personally I'm not a fan of "the big carp scene" but I think there should be sufficient grant money

made available to fishery owners to fence waters (and without question 100% grants available to people affected who have owned their fishery before reintoduction of otters to their area). Otherwise owners facing financial ruin might feel forced into taking the law into their own hands.

 

A good friend told me of someone he knows who stocked his pond on a small holding with a number of trout and when he turned up in the spring tried fishing but the pond was "empty".

 

The owner rang my friend to come over and in a large sack was an otter, the owner claimed his dog killed it. My friend told me he was surprised how heavy the otter was and the size of its teeth. My friend is a good source so I have no doubt this happened though he said the dog killing the otter is questionable....the owner had a labrador.

 

The E.A need to help out with fencing to avoid conflicts between fishery owners and otters, as the "otters attack simmo's carp" headline may become more common and fishery owners feeling they must fend for themselves and making criminals of owners feeling they are forced into acting themselves.

 

IF YOU WERE A FISHERY OWNER WITH A FAMILY TO SUPPORT AND A MORTGAGE TO PAY AND SAW YOUR STOCK IN BITS ON THE BANK, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

 

 

I would do what every other business owner in the country has to do.

Take steps to protect my stock and make it secure.

I wouldn't expect a government agency to pay for it either, it is part of owning and running a business.

[Worms]

I would be very dubious of wild claims made by "fishing legends", and fish farmers who have a financial interest in making their lives easy.

 

This country has had a number of species that have been 'victimised' by hearsay, the main case being badgers and bovine TB, closely followed by millions of pounds of taxpayers money being wasted on culling. The irony of all this is that the areas that were most heavily culled saw an increase in bovine TB!

 

Don't forget that the EA still have funds left, because fish farmers/pond owners can't be arsed to apply for the money or are too mean to pay their percentage when they are earning silly money breeding fish that end up in our rivers.

 

As Sportsman says "Take steps to protect my stock and make it secure." Anybody that doesn't do that is a prat. Don't forget the geezer in the first link has had to close down three breeding ponds already, now how stupid is he if he is constantly losing stock but does nothing about it.....he doesn't even apply for the fencing grant! Sorry, no sympathy at all.

 

On top of that, where is the evidence that otters have been eating all of his fish? This is getting rather monotonous, "otters killed my carp", yes, ok, and aliens ate my raspberries! All of this multi thousand (million?) pound industry and not one piece of concrete evidence to show an otter killing a carp. Even most of the accompanying photos show library pictures of otters eating eels or trout. The only eye witness evidence is from a link I posted a while ago that disproved the otter theory on one site when mink were seen to be the culprits with a video of them also attacking swans.

 

John Wilson's pathetic “Anglers are the guardians of the aquatic world and I am outraged that, once again, we have been treated like second-class citizens,” outburst is typical of the specimen hunting for money, want it all for free, I'm better than you attitude that is becoming all too prevalent in angling today.

 

Sorry Jeff, I'm still going to fish my otter infested rivers with loads of fish and poo-poo people that argue otherwise unless they come up with facts and/or evidence that they have protected their financial interests by putting their hand in their pocket!

 

Oh by the way, don't advertise your mate's otter in a bag too loudly, possession of an otter or a part of an otter is a criminal offence. If it was killed by his dog he is liable to prosecution as he should have his dog under control, that includes against killing EPS (European Protected Species)!

Edited January 31, 2010 by Worms

[Peter Sharpe]

The barbel fishing has declined due to the pressure of fishing and now there is bugger all weed in the stretches that I fish, probably due to the carp

The only way carp could ever clear weed is by causing so much suspended silt that it cuts off all of the light and coats the leaves. In a river with any kind of flow at all it couldn't possibly make a difference. If only carp really could reduce the amount of weed! The lower reaches of both the Welland and the Nene have good heads of carp, but weed is a huge problem on both of these rivers. The lower Welland is so choked up with it that fishing is only possible in the stretch that runs through Spalding. Anywhere above that, you could almost use the weed to walk across it in the summer.

[Worms]

The only way carp could ever clear weed is by causing so much suspended silt that it cuts off all of the light and coats the leaves. In a river with any kind of flow at all it couldn't possibly make a difference. If only carp really could reduce the amount of weed! The lower reaches of both the Welland and the Nene have good heads of carp, but weed is a huge problem on both of these rivers. The lower Welland is so choked up with it that fishing is only possible in the stretch that runs through Spalding. Anywhere above that, you could almost use the weed to walk across it in the summer.

And I can take you to numerous ponds where prior to carp there was abundant weed, now there is none, they've eaten it! Carp are a known problem in waters with species that use weed for egg-laying, they eat the weed and incidentally the eggs.

 

I cannot guarantee that carp ate the weed in the river I spoke of but, for 40 years prior to the carp entering the water there was a prolific growth of a variety of water plants. Within two years of carp being present there is none. Supposition I agree but, with 40 years observation behind it!

 

As for the Welland and Nene, well I sort of agree, with the fertiliser runoff into those rivers (the areas I have worked on anyway) I'm not surprised the carp can't keep up!

[poledark]

Another of those oft repeated myths..."carp ate all the weed" How come almost every large carp lake I have ever fished get stuffed with weed every year?

 

All goes back to the days when Don Leney was selling carp to lake owners as a means of reducing the weed..never worked then, and doesn't work now....except as Peter says..by colouring up the water....but Tench do that far more effectively.

 

It's a bit like the old "Otters don't kill carp" myth as well

 

 

Den

Edited January 31, 2010 by poledark

[Tigger]

The grass carp was introduced to try and munch the weed down a bit in certain waters...lancaster canal for one, but they stop eating weed when they get a bit bigger anyhow so there not really much good at the job. I haven't ever seen a problem with carp eating all the weed in a pond/water. I think carp actually lay their eggs in weed so they'd be shootin themselves in the foot if they munched out all the weed

[Worms]

Another of those oft repeated myths..."carp ate all the weed" How come almost every large carp lake I have ever fished get stuffed with weed every year?

 

All goes back to the days when Don Leney was selling carp to lake owners as a means of reducing the weed..never worked then, and doesn't work now....except as Peter says..by colouring up the water....but Tench do that far more effectively.

 

It's a bit like the old "Otters don't kill carp" myth as well

 

 

Den

I've never heard the " otters don't kill carp" myth Den. Otters will eat carp as carp will eat water plants and seeds, and uproot the plants and cause them to die off because of turbidity and algal blooms caused by eutrophism. This in turn can upset the natural balance of a waterbody.

 

Otters won't eat all of the fish in a balanced system and carp won't kill all of the plants in a balanced water system. Introducing carp to waters that don't naturally have them can cause a problem. Introducing carp to the natural feeding areas of otters also causes an imbalance in the system. If otters exploit that imbalance then good and that is precisely why they are there. If fish farmers are too stupid to realise the effects of predation then they are in the wrong business!

[Jeffwill]

I would be very dubious of wild claims made by "fishing legends", and fish farmers who have a financial interest in making their lives easy.

 

This country has had a number of species that have been 'victimised' by hearsay, the main case being badgers and bovine TB, closely followed by millions of pounds of taxpayers money being wasted on culling. The irony of all this is that the areas that were most heavily culled saw an increase in bovine TB!

 

Don't forget that the EA still have funds left, because fish farmers/pond owners can't be arsed to apply for the money or are too mean to pay their percentage when they are earning silly money breeding fish that end up in our rivers.

 

As Sportsman says "Take steps to protect my stock and make it secure." Anybody that doesn't do that is a prat. Don't forget the geezer in the first link has had to close down three breeding ponds already, now how stupid is he if he is constantly losing stock but does nothing about it.....he doesn't even apply for the fencing grant! Sorry, no sympathy at all.

 

On top of that, where is the evidence that otters have been eating all of his fish? This is getting rather monotonous, "otters killed my carp", yes, ok, and aliens ate my raspberries! All of this multi thousand (million?) pound industry and not one piece of concrete evidence to show an otter killing a carp. Even most of the accompanying photos show library pictures of otters eating eels or trout. The only eye witness evidence is from a link I posted a while ago that disproved the otter theory on one site when mink were seen to be the culprits with a video of them also attacking swans.

 

John Wilson's pathetic “Anglers are the guardians of the aquatic world and I am outraged that, once again, we have been treated like second-class citizens,” outburst is typical of the specimen hunting for money, want it all for free, I'm better than you attitude that is becoming all too prevalent in angling today.

 

Sorry Jeff, I'm still going to fish my otter infested rivers with loads of fish and poo-poo people that argue otherwise unless they come up with facts and/or evidence that they have protected their financial interests by putting their hand in their pocket!

 

Oh by the way, don't advertise your mate's otter in a bag too loudly, possession of an otter or a part of an otter is a criminal offence. If it was killed by his dog he is liable to prosecution as he should have his dog under control, that includes against killing EPS (European Protected Species)!

 

Hi Nick,

 

Seems to be a bit of prejudice on this thread against CARP..the old mud pigs

 

Does not seem fair to me....totally blaming the fishery owners for otters scoffing their stock...for what is basically "being in the wrong place at the wrong time."

 

Or are all fisheries at risk?

 

Fencing is very expensive and grants should be means tested to enable struggling businesses (many family run) to qualify for a full grant. Its not just the huge cost of fencing in acres of water but the cost of replacing stock. Expecting fishery owners badly affected by otter predation to "match fund" tens of thousands of pounds for fencing is punitive. If its in the publics interest to reintroduce otters then the tax payer should adequately help out the fishery owners.

 

Regarding the take up of grants, I have been on the E.A. website and done various general searches for information on fencing grants....very poor information available for fishery owners...

almost misinformation. I can see why grant money is unclaimed.. Maybe the E.A. could email (at no cost) all fishery owners registered with them, advising of the availability of grants and the process for claiming it. The fishery owner will have to submit sufficient evidence of fish loss / predation to qualify. But then again, this is the same organisation that recently carried out a poll of anglers regarding new bylaws....yet no anglers on this forum were consulted. So its not just the fishery owners who "can't be arsed."

 

Regarding the Law, my mate said, and I am just repeating hearsay again, that the contents of the sack had sharp claws (perfectly designed to grip large specimens).

 

PS When searching for fencing infor, came across the E.A.'s "water for wildlife" front page (guide for fishery owners affected by Otters) - picture of an angler holding an impressive carp and below it a picture of an otter. Someone in the E.A. has a sense of humour.

[Tigger]

If fish farmers are too stupid to realise the effects of predation then they are in the wrong business!

 

 

I reckon the fish farmers should be strapped to a ducking stool and treated like Witches

Scary fact is these people have no interest in the fish or wildlife, it's just money to them and bugger the wildlife so long as they make their cash without haveing to spend on fences etc.

 

I can't weigh up how people can have the front to moan about a true native creature eating a few fish when half the population have cats and let them run riot all over the country and kill as much precious wildlife as they want without batting an eye. It was bloody cats that robbed a neighbours pet fish in their garden pond !!

[Sportsman]

I don't get this.

I have a business (a family business as it happens)

As part of that business I have to store stock so I have a small warehouse.

If I kept my stock laying in a heap in a public car park I would not be too surprised if the local "predators" cleaned me out.

To avoid this I rent the building. I pay rates on the building.

I install very good (and expensive) locks on the building.

I spend large amounts of my families money on security for the building.

It is necessary to do this to run the business. It is part and parcel of the overheads connected to running the business.

I received no grants for doing this, so why should a fish farmer or fishery owner do nothing, spend no money and then when it goes wrong start crying like babies and asking for a government handout.

As for the **ick who claims that he has had his fish wiped out 3 times, well, if my warehouse had been robbed three times I might think about closing the door sometime