Otters Force Out Fishing Club

[Guerilla]

Maybe someone can answer this question, if nine otters somehow manage to catch, kill and eat every fish in a lake what do they then eat?

 

The fish in the neighbouring river.

The fish in the unfenced 4 lake complex a mile down the road.

Any other fish they can find?

Edited January 19, 2010 by Norfolk Rob

[Steve Walker]

The bottom line is that we live in a democracy, and if it comes down to us or otters, we will lose. You'd need your head up your backside not to realise that. We have no choice but to learn to live with them, and if we publicly make ourselves their enemy we will achieve nothing but to make ourselves unpopular.

[poledark]

Exactly Den, you keep banging on about evidence, where is the evidence that they were KILLED by otters rather than anything else?

 

I've no doubt otters eat fish. I also have no doubt that they will eat any dead/dying fish that they happen across. People find eaten fish and start shouting, fish die all the time and aren't neccessarily found but be damn sure if they are found by otters and eaten the carcass will be found. Everyone has a story of a fish kill, if this lake is close to a river the otter probably do come here but who is to say they didn't just make use of easy meals of dead or dying fish?

 

If you make waters that are like shooting fish in a barrel every predator will be attracted to it. If you want to protect your business/investment do so.

 

Maybe someone can answer this question, if nine otters somehow manage to catch, kill and eat every fish in a lake what do they then eat? If they breed what do the young eat? Predators are not in the habit of eating all the prey, it means they will die, simple as. If an ecosystem cannot support an apex predator it will go extinct. Once again every predator will not refuse an easy meal but the law of deminishing returns dictates that there will be plenty of fish left before the otters/predators starve to death.

 

Moan all you want about otters. start shooting them if you want! You will almost certainly acheive nothing positive, except giving PETA etc all the ammo they want. Otters are not a massive problem compared pollution, water abstraction, habitat destruction etc etc.

 

I guess just one last question aside from moaning, what do you actually suggest should be done? The EA should shell out? Is this the the same EA you don't feel you should have to pay for?

 

Rich

 

They will eat anything they can catch...remember that series on the small Devon river? the otter even ate a moorhen. I wonder how they got on with all the iced up lakes? maybe nature has found a balance and most of them starved to death.

 

What should be done? simple, the law should allow an owner to protect his fish....... simples.

 

Another thing, this "problem" is fairly recent, or at least not one that I was aware of during the 60's/70's or 80's

 

Den

[Kappa]

They will eat anything they can catch...remember that series on the small Devon river? the otter even ate a moorhen. I wonder how they got on with all the iced up lakes? maybe nature has found a balance and most of them starved to death.

 

What should be done? simple, the law should allow an owner to protect his fish....... simples.

 

Another thing, this "problem" is fairly recent, or at least not one that I was aware of during the 60's/70's or 80's

 

Den

 

Protect his fish, yes, build a fence. Are you suggesting an animal that was almost extinct and has been living in this country for thousands or years is worth less than carp that are A: not native and B: as close and damn it to a pest (Pest (organism), an injurious or unwanted animal or plant) by spreading unchecked all over the place. I think a simple literature search will find many more references to carp causing problems than otters.

 

And the evidence that they caught these (or any others featured on the net or the rags) carp whilst they were healthy (i.e. not already dead / dying)??? I think you've mentioned evidence in most of your posts but as yet have failed to provide any.

 

I think the onus is on those claiming the otters are killing all the fish to provide evidence it is not being cause by anything else and the otters are not merely cleaning up the mess. As Anderoo has said time and again there are otters round here AND plenty of fish so that is clear evidence that they don't ramapage around and kill everything fish in sight! My idiotic local club has killed far more carp by bad management than all the otters in the country out together!

 

Rich

[gozzer]

Otters do probably eat more 'specimen' sized fish now, simply because there are more 'specimen' sized fish about now. Just the same as anglers catch more specimen fish than they used to.

It only seems to be a recent problem because anglers expectations are so much higher now than they used to be.

 

It boils down to whether we see angling as including nature and all that goes with it, or something apart from nature, where we try and have control over everything.

 

I know which I prefer.

 

John.

[poledark]

There you go again Richard, you keep on about carp as if they were the only fish that otters eat. I think it isn't me that is blinkered. A bit hysterical to suggest that I said that otters were rampaging around eating every thing in sight surely?

 

You keep asking me to provide evidence, I keep saying (at least 5 times now) that I have no evidence, never seen any with my own eyes, but they do eat fish don't they? Then it is fairly safe to assume that at least some of the pictures of carcases were down to otters.

 

You affirm that you have not seen or noticed a problem, but you have no way of knowing how good the stock may have been without any otters being present. If you are happy for them to eat "your" fish, then I am happy also. I just don't want them eating "my" fish be they carp/tench/bream/roach/perch/rudd/eels/moorhens/baby mallards and coots. Or even any pike.

 

Den

Edited January 19, 2010 by poledark

[John Weddup]

Wow hasn't this post grown a lot today.

 

I have lived in the countryside all of my life. I hate being in towns.

 

I spend all my spare time fishing which also includes having binoculars and time to watch the bird and animal life. I don't care if I blank or catch lots. Infact catching lots can become boring.

 

I like fishing hard venues, love the rivers, and the big reservoirs with few fish and lots of water. I never fish commercials.

 

I absolutely love dace and roach aswell as bream and chub.

 

I fish the fens, the broads and locally suffolk/essex. I am and have been involved with several local clubs.

 

My local river stour (suffolk) has been affected by otters. It used to have very good stocks of roach dace chub bream etc. This was severely affected by abstraction, farming, and being used by the EA to transfer water from the fens to reservoirs.

 

Fry survival is also affected by the EA dumping water out of the river as quick as possible when it rains for fear of flooding. They have made many promises of fry survival area's that would involve dredging the old river courses but these never happen.

 

The fish stocks are at a low but sustaineable level. We have severe cormorant problems at times espescially of late with stillwaters being frozen.

 

Then we have lots of otters suddenly appearing. they are very common now. They are not scared of humans. There are many in town and country stretches of river.

 

These numbers cannot be from natural breeding. I also know that all the otters that have died accidentally road kill etc have micro chips in them same as your dog can have. Suffolk wildlife trust actually asked on local radio for anyone to phone in if they spotted an otter dead because they could retreive said micro chip and it would give details of where and when it was released.

 

I don't know of any easy way to put a chip in a wild otter.

 

Some streamy stretches of my river were prolific chub stretches but may have had only 20 or so chub per mile. The last few years have seen the decline of chub stocks to the point where catching one is a miracle.

 

I know watatoad does well from a weirpool he fishes in town at sudbury but its a very busy spot with lots of dog walkers etc. The more open wilder area's I prefer are being affected.

 

Natural england and the stour valley trust have created many otter holts along the river. Around the populated ones there are many carcusses of larger fish such as tench pike and chub.

 

I remember being very anti hunt at one time. Not because I disliked killing foxes but because of the posh ***** on horses that rarely understood the countryside. More importantly they bread and introduced foxes to increase population for their hunt. This lead to a large number of hand reared foxes that did not have the natural instinct of killing the weak and not just killing for fun. They were the ones that killed every hen and eat none.

 

This I beleive is happening with the introduced otters. We have had stillwaters near the river were fish have been killed and part eaten then left. Some appeared to have gone on a fun filled killing spree and eaten very little.

 

Yes the bigger fish will go first. Its obvious no animal will waste energy catchinga small fish when it can get something bigger but as stock dwindles it will eat what it can until the population of otters goes down.

 

If the rivers were not under stress from other area's I guess they could cope but we regularly have conditions were drains flood raw sewage into the river locally but the EA say they can do nothing about it. Major drain repairs are necassary.

 

Why is it that natural england seem to only want to reintroduce predators?. Why is it if you speak to anyone other than an angler they all seem to think the rivers are full of fish bank to bank mile after mile.

 

regards

 

john

[Steve Walker]

I don't know of any easy way to put a chip in a wild otter.

 

I would guess you live trap it and then insert the microchip.

[lutra]

If I'd know otters could be as selective as that I may have helped release them.

[Sportsman]

Wow hasn't this post grown a lot today.

 

I have lived in the countryside all of my life. I hate being in towns.

 

I spend all my spare time fishing which also includes having binoculars and time to watch the bird and animal life. I don't care if I blank or catch lots. Infact catching lots can become boring.

 

I like fishing hard venues, love the rivers, and the big reservoirs with few fish and lots of water. I never fish commercials.

 

I absolutely love dace and roach aswell as bream and chub.

 

I fish the fens, the broads and locally suffolk/essex. I am and have been involved with several local clubs.

 

My local river stour (suffolk) has been affected by otters. It used to have very good stocks of roach dace chub bream etc. This was severely affected by abstraction, farming, and being used by the EA to transfer water from the fens to reservoirs.

 

Fry survival is also affected by the EA dumping water out of the river as quick as possible when it rains for fear of flooding. They have made many promises of fry survival area's that would involve dredging the old river courses but these never happen.

 

The fish stocks are at a low but sustaineable level. We have severe cormorant problems at times espescially of late with stillwaters being frozen.

 

Then we have lots of otters suddenly appearing. they are very common now. They are not scared of humans. There are many in town and country stretches of river.

 

These numbers cannot be from natural breeding. I also know that all the otters that have died accidentally road kill etc have micro chips in them same as your dog can have. Suffolk wildlife trust actually asked on local radio for anyone to phone in if they spotted an otter dead because they could retreive said micro chip and it would give details of where and when it was released.

 

I don't know of any easy way to put a chip in a wild otter.

 

Some streamy stretches of my river were prolific chub stretches but may have had only 20 or so chub per mile. The last few years have seen the decline of chub stocks to the point where catching one is a miracle.

 

I know watatoad does well from a weirpool he fishes in town at sudbury but its a very busy spot with lots of dog walkers etc. The more open wilder area's I prefer are being affected.

 

Natural england and the stour valley trust have created many otter holts along the river. Around the populated ones there are many carcusses of larger fish such as tench pike and chub.

 

I remember being very anti hunt at one time. Not because I disliked killing foxes but because of the posh ***** on horses that rarely understood the countryside. More importantly they bread and introduced foxes to increase population for their hunt. This lead to a large number of hand reared foxes that did not have the natural instinct of killing the weak and not just killing for fun. They were the ones that killed every hen and eat none.

 

This I beleive is happening with the introduced otters. We have had stillwaters near the river were fish have been killed and part eaten then left. Some appeared to have gone on a fun filled killing spree and eaten very little.

 

Yes the bigger fish will go first. Its obvious no animal will waste energy catchinga small fish when it can get something bigger but as stock dwindles it will eat what it can until the population of otters goes down.

 

If the rivers were not under stress from other area's I guess they could cope but we regularly have conditions were drains flood raw sewage into the river locally but the EA say they can do nothing about it. Major drain repairs are necassary.

 

Why is it that natural england seem to only want to reintroduce predators?. Why is it if you speak to anyone other than an angler they all seem to think the rivers are full of fish bank to bank mile after mile.

 

regards

 

john

 

 

Don't know much about hunting then