Are humans more important than fish?

[corydoras]

i have question 4 corydoras whats god !!!

A hypothesis I see no need for.

[The Flying Tench]

We are more important than anything else - from our own point of view. From a neutral point of view, nothing matters at all.

But presumably you feel it matters. Just like I am sure you have a strong sense of right and wrong. So perhaps, when you see someone abusing fish or animals or other humans you feel angry, but then a bit of your brain clicks in that says 'but it doesn't really matter , these are beliefs/emotions that have been socialised into me, but I could just as well have had different ones, so I'll forget about it and think of something else'. Or do you?

[gozzer]

That's a strange question John.

 

Throughout the history of mankind even some humans have been regarded as more important than others. Some think that their dog or cat is more important than some human they don't know, so I assume that some will think that some fish are more important than some humans.

The number of anglers that I've heard threaten violence to anyone that takes a fish 'for the pot', is proof that there are those that have their priorities mixed up.

 

John.

[Ken L]

It depends on what you mean by more importent than.

As individual animals - no.

As indicators of a wider environment - yes.

 

Is it OK to rape the seas (nice emotive term that) and polute the rivers to feed and water an ever growing totally uncontrolled human population explosion ? No it isnt.We as a species need to control our numbers.

 

Is it OK to pump cyanide into the Amazon so that the local chavs can by cheap gold earings from Elizabeth Duke ? No it isn't.

 

Is it OK to factory trawl herrings from the north sea causing a total colapse of the fishery, dispersal of whale stocks and the local extinction of bluefin tuna ? Well, I don't think it is.

 

Is it OK to shoot otters (a comparativly rare native freshwater predator) in the UK in order to protect the stocking density of man made lakes that allow a tiny proportion of humans a weekend diversion through angling ?

[Leon Roskilly]

I can't make much sense of this thread.

 

It would help to have a definition of 'important' in the context of the thread.

 

And 'important' to whom, or to what.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Leon Roskilly

[Peter Sharpe]

Well despite Cory's comments I agree with you that humans are more evolved in the sense that we have more advanced brains, for example. But does that necessarily mean we are more important or of greater value? I suppose the opposite seems a bit ridiculous, at least if taken to the extreme. If a bacteria is of equal value to you you could boost your value very quickly by eating one of those pills that contains millions of bacteria!

 

Personally I go for your first one. A 'soul' and such like. But I guess if I didn't I would go for the second one, but would feel I was 'skating on thin ice' in a way.

To the vast majority of the general public, just about everything is more important than a fish - as long as it either cuddly or has feathers (all raptors excluded).

[poledark]

As Leon has asked, what is importance? If it is a question of priorities ( my life or a fishes life for instance) then I am No1. If it comes to chopping down trees and burning them to cook food or to provide heating and shelter, then I am No1 again.

 

I could go on, but yes we/I am more important than anything else, but we/I need to ensure the sustainability of food and fuel in order that we/I can survive.

 

I think I can also make a case for the extermination of sections of humanity, if it ensured my survival against theirs.

 

Yes, we've made mistakes, but we are learning

 

Den

[Steve Walker]

But presumably you feel it matters. Just like I am sure you have a strong sense of right and wrong. So perhaps, when you see someone abusing fish or animals or other humans you feel angry, but then a bit of your brain clicks in that says 'but it doesn't really matter , these are beliefs/emotions that have been socialised into me, but I could just as well have had different ones, so I'll forget about it and think of something else'. Or do you?

 

No - because it does matter to me, even though I can see that from an objective point of view neither I nor it are significant!

 

I think perhaps the desire that things which matter to us should matter to something other than ourselves is one of the reasons humans often believe in deities.

[The Flying Tench]

No - because it does matter to me, even though I can see that from an objective point of view neither I nor it are significant!

 

I think perhaps the desire that things which matter to us should matter to something other than ourselves is one of the reasons humans often believe in deities.

 

Ok, I think I understand that. You are saying it matters to you, but your beliefs/values don't have any objective validity, they are just what you think (have been brought up to think). Though many in this country have similar values, so it enables us to co-operate OK as a society.

 

But what about other cultures? Suppose there is another country where newborn babies are considered to have little value and can be put out to die (a bit like ancient Rome). Since their values have as much objective validity as ours, am I right in saying we shouldn't do anything to try and convince them to behave differently?

[chesters1]

Ok, I think I understand that. You are saying it matters to you, but your beliefs/values don't have any objective validity, they are just what you think (have been brought up to think). Though many in this country have similar values, so it enables us to co-operate OK as a society.

 

But what about other cultures? Suppose there is another country where newborn babies are considered to have little value and can be put out to die (a bit like ancient Rome). Since their values have as much objective validity as ours, am I right in saying we shouldn't do anything to try and convince them to behave differently?

you mean half the world where boys are wanted but girls a drain (especially the price asked so they can be married) it doesn't matter they will sort themselves out ,the more us "civilised" lot interfere the more it shows our flaws .we dont think like them anymore but if we were fighting to survive in poverty amoungst countless millions i expect we'd rapidly follow their lead.

probably not as blatant but we've had no problem even 50 years ago shipping unwanted kids off to an uncertain future without a second thought

being "civilised" generally works against us rather than for us in every way

 

humans are nothing more than animals (actually i think more like army ants in actions) where they destroy everything to protect their own survival ,everything is inferior giving the excuse to do it even god is brought into the scenario for the more moralistic if god says its OK then it must be.We will destroy what we need we will disappear from the planet as nature intends ,the quicker we do it the quicker the planet will recover after our bones fertilise the earth.

foreigners who we know turn our eyes to that are polluting wholesale are doing nothing more than we did in the past ,were hypocritical indeed! it helps our greed destroyed the things that did it here but have no qualms using the stuff that's a bye product of it over there.if the planet had an opinion humans would be the bottom of the pile not the top as we insist we are.

nature does its best to get rid of humans wholesale but unfortunately those that generally most effected quickly breed more to compensate

Edited January 20, 2010 by chesters1