Carp

[Sportsman]

As I have said before Den (I assume you directed that post at me, although not by name), it's not the carp, it's the stocking decisions that are the problem. You yourself describe overstocked commercials as 'dreadful places'. I expect in time many will be forced to reduce their stock on animal welfare gounds, and I will be right behind it. I find it quite disgusting that we are allowed to treat fish like that.

 

As for carp anglers, I've seen plenty of lovely lakes that happen to hold some carp - not overstocked commercials - ruined by yobbish behaviour, and until that experience changes I will continue to hold that opinion. I am sure you are a quiet and considerate angler, but most in my experience are not. And they ALWAYS fish for carp.

 

So the question is:

Are all carp fishers yobs or do yobs only fish for carp

[Anderoo]

I think saying most carp anglers are inconsiderate is a bit of an over staement IMHO. I am a competent but nothing special all rounder type angler. I do enjoy a bit of carp fishing bolies bite alrams etc and my PB (as of Sat 3rd July 2010) is ony 17 pounds. I fish Chelmsford AA waters which hold lots of larger carp and the carp anglers i encounter are all helpful and considerate people who don't cause any probs for anyone else including those fishing for other fish like tench and crucians which are also in abundencce in the waters i fish. The club is very strict on its angling rules and consideration to others is in the rule book. there are always those who spoil it for others which is sad but all should not be tarnished with the same brush.

 

It probably comes down to where we all fish at the end of the day. I expect Den would say the same as you. I only wish that was my experience!

[gozzer]

I don't think anyone wishes there were no carp, Den - just that things were more like they were even only twenty years ago, when there was still some balance.

 

So true Steve.

 

Balance, ecological considerations (instead of the oft quoted "social and economical" reasons), and a choice (other than " don't fish then"), would be nice. (And I do remember the "old" days).

 

 

John.

PS

It's been painful reading this thread. I've had to do it sitting on my hands to try and stop me posting.

[Peter M]

My other club (ongar DAA) is developing a non carp pond for members and this is being greeted with a great deal of interest. the lake was dug two years ago and theyare stocking roach rudd crucians and tench into it. I think that clubs still can offer the range of choice we all want. both clubs i am a member of have streaches of river that also offer alternatives. My advice is to join a club and avoid the commercials as most yobbsh behaivour i have seen has been on day ticket carp puddles incluing rude attitudes from the owners of the venues. all in all its people who cause problems not the fish themselves. better rules that prevent overstocking should be put in place on commercials imo. At the end of the day if you find a good well run club with a committed commitee, sensible rules and a variety of venues that match different styles of fishing then you should be a very happy angler. Live and let live i say.

[gozzer]

So the question is:

Are all carp fishers yobs or do yobs only fish for carp

 

Neither Dave, it's just that what was once a method of fishing used by a minority, has been promoted (for commercial reasons) to such an extent, that now it's used as 'the norm' regardless of species, conditions, or location, by many newcomers to angling. It's also a relatively 'easy' way to almost ensure a hooked fish. (especially in an overstocked water). The increase in the use of multi-rod set ups, and remote alarms, combined with bolt rigs has appealed to the 'instant success' culture we have today. Thus a days fishing has to many (too many IMO), become more of a social outing than an angling trip. Meet a few mates, have a BBQ, a few pints and a laugh, is becoming more and more frequent. Often with no regard to fish location, (or other anglers) just cast your 3-4 different baits around the water, and wait. If you don't catch, then the waters rubbish and needs stocking, but you've enjoyed the drink and banter with your mates. The only thing that's spoiled it are the miserable gits sitting quietly in the corner, who complain about the noise, or when your few ounces of lead lands in front of them. Then one day they decide to try the rivers, same methods, same craic, but it's rubbish so they go back to the well stocked stillwaters.

 

If any of you haven't experienced this, then I envy you, you are very lucky.

 

John.

[Dick Dastardly]

That about sums it up John.

[Peter M]

While I agree the behaviour pointed out by gozzer is reprehensible I really think it is overstated and if its allowed it is down to bad running of the venue. Such idiots should be thrown off the water and banned for causing nuisance . I really have not seen this type of behaviour now for a long time and I think anglers, especially those who take the trouble to invest in club membership, don’t go into bad behaviour as the rules like no alcohol no casting into others swims etc are strictly enforced.. As I say I avoid commercials now and I am now avoiding public or free places like canals or park lakes. There it’s the general non angling public as well as some anglers who I want to avoid.

 

And just because someone wants to use modern methods for carp fishing using (where allowed) more than one rod who is to say they shouldn’t. As long as they don’t cause nuisance to others. I am not into this ultra purist nonsense. Who said we all have to fish like mr Crabtree?

 

Fishing in the way you want while sticking to the rules and not causing problems is good, bad angling , causing nuisance and bad fishery management is bad. As I say clubs often offer a variety of venues and I like to partake of all of it. I like my method feeder, boillies semi fixed bolt rig for carp on gravel pits, or using my cane rod with centre pin lift method fishing for crucians and tench on small ponds and I like staking for chub with free lined worms on small streams. Each to their own.

[Anderoo]

Fishing in the way you want while sticking to the rules and not causing problems is good, bad angling , causing nuisance and bad fishery management is bad. As I say clubs often offer a variety of venues and I like to partake of all of it. I like my method feeder, boillies semi fixed bolt rig for carp on gravel pits, or using my cane rod with centre pin lift method fishing for crucians and tench on small ponds and I like staking for chub with free lined worms on small streams. Each to their own.

 

I couldn't agree more Peter, the trouble is many of us aren't fortunate enough to have that choice. It's only really an issue in the summer months though, as soon as the rivers freshen up in autumn and become fishable everything changes.

[gozzer]

While I agree the behaviour pointed out by gozzer is reprehensible I really think it is overstated and if its allowed it is down to bad running of the venue. Such idiots should be thrown off the water and banned for causing nuisance . I really have not seen this type of behaviour now for a long time and I think anglers, especially those who take the trouble to invest in club membership, don’t go into bad behaviour as the rules like no alcohol no casting into others swims etc are strictly enforced.. As I say I avoid commercials now and I am now avoiding public or free places like canals or park lakes. There it’s the general non angling public as well as some anglers who I want to avoid.

 

And just because someone wants to use modern methods for carp fishing using (where allowed) more than one rod who is to say they shouldn’t. As long as they don’t cause nuisance to others. I am not into this ultra purist nonsense. Who said we all have to fish like mr Crabtree?

 

Fishing in the way you want while sticking to the rules and not causing problems is good, bad angling , causing nuisance and bad fishery management is bad. As I say clubs often offer a variety of venues and I like to partake of all of it. I like my method feeder, boillies semi fixed bolt rig for carp on gravel pits, or using my cane rod with centre pin lift method fishing for crucians and tench on small ponds and I like staking for chub with free lined worms on small streams. Each to their own.

 

I agree with much of what you say Peter, especially the bit about choice. The commercial aspect of todays angling, and the promotion of certain methods and species, has limited that choice for many of us. Many of the good balanced club waters I used to fish are now overstocked carp waters. The committees decided that they had to try and compete with the stocking levels of commercials, and now the waters are ruined for some of us. The competition from the overstocked ticket waters, and the refusal to rejoin by those like myself, has caused membership levels to fall, and they have had to relinquish some waters. Many of these have been leased by small exclusive clubs and syndicates, so are now not available to most. It's this lack of choice that angers me, along with the obsession with the various strains of carp stocked in vast numbers, and their 'escape' into surrounding waters, especially rivers.

No one's saying that we all should "fish like Mr Crabtree", each to their own, as you say. But I would like the choice to fish 'my way' a bit more often, and not have carp as my number one option on the vast majority of waters available to me.

 

Is that too much to want?

 

John.

[Peter M]

John i agree with what you say about choice and i must admit i realise i am really lucky as both clubs i am in have developed non carp ponds as well as manage streaches of the rivers chelmer blackwater and roding, another big club in the area (billericay) now also has non carp lakes mememberships have increased in both clubs. i do agree that clubs have to compete with the commercials and that is causing them to turn more lakes over to carp and even cat fish which really worries me. maybe the future is for clubs to join forces to keep offering choice and compete with commercials. tight lines