Countyside Alliance and FACT

[Dave Lumb]

I'm afraid I don't buy in to the sacrifical lamb of livebaiting, or keepnets, or barbed hooks or anything else, on the grounds of PR.

 

Those who oppose angling will see that merely as an admission of guilt, and another step closer for them towards their goal.

 

The antis are not interested in compromise - only in ridding the world of practices they find abhorent. No matter how long it takes.

[trent.barbeler]

Dear All,

 

Pete Waller said;

 

"I'm sorry Trenters, my friend, I'm not being drawn on this one! Tally-ho and off I go, tootle pip and all that squit, what! Cheerio, for now , time for a harry snifters old boy!!"

 

I had a tenner with a mate that said the Oracle from the Coracle would be in before sundown on the 20th. BINGO! Thats another Waller sourced tenner!! Going straight into the next CA fund raisers tin as well!!!

 

Pete continued to say;

 

"and livebaiting might have to join them. Even if only as a piece of public relations."

 

Ripples of fear growing. Then Pete said;

 

"Irrespective of our feelings on livebaiting it may have to be the sacrificial lamb. It does go counter to conservation claims by anglers. It goes counter to the claims from most pikers that pike should be returned. Why pike and not roach?"

 

Be Afraid. Pete went on to say;

 

"And before you accuse me of stabbing my fellow pikers in the back just consider the wider church that constitutes angling. Something that all 'specialist' anglers should do. There is a wide world of angling out there."

 

Peter, thats exactly what you've just done isn't it? Took out the dagger? Unity? Don't make me laugh.

 

Pete then said;

 

"Consider, too, Den's very valid comment that perhaps if fox hunting had been prepared to compromise then perhaps it wouldn't have gone down the pan. Maybe angling should look at itself before it gets shoved!"

 

You've always maintained that hunting had nothing to do with angling. Comfortable to use hunting as a comparison when it suits an agenda eh Pete?

 

When politicos such as Peter who sit on consultatives start to trot out such rot its time to be like Blairs missus;

 

Be afraid. Very afraid.

 

For the record I stand shoulder to shoulder with predator anglers in defending their right to use livebaits.

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[Peter Waller]

Hi Lee, you little devil you.

[chesters1]

we could ban live baiting tommorrow but as with lead it will be remembered for years and brought up in every anti angling nonsence put about ,i dont live bait ,i used to but i dont anymore ,nothing to do with anything more than i can't be bothered ,when i lived baited i caught my fish in the summer and used them in the winter ,i dont get the time to catch them and then pike fish ,i like a easy life chuck on a dead and relax in the chair ,i may not catch so much as in the past but i'm old and lazy ,for a few quid i can buy dead fish and keep them in the freezer and when i get the chance use them

[Peter Waller]

Just for the record I certainly won't be pushing for a ban on livebaiting. However I do find it hard to justify and I am not comfortable doing it. But my comments are simply based on a pragmatic realism that a ban will eventually be forced upon us, and it could even come from within.

[A Worm OOE]

Quote

"Irrespective of our feelings on livebaiting it may have to be the sacrificial lamb. It does go counter to conservation claims by anglers. It goes counter to the claims from most pikers that pike should be returned. Why pike and not roach?"

 

The problem with sacrifising some angling practices is that it will lay us open to other arguments. How can we justify catching fish with hooks then say we agree that it is wrong to hook on a live bait. To most people this will seem contradictary.

 

When we defend angling it must be angling as a whole and on the principle of angling not the practicalities. There is no use pointing out the use of unhooking mats and anti gourge rigs the banning of gaffs etc, in specimin hunting as the antis can go strait to sea angling where there are no unhooking mats gaffs are still in everyday use and probably more fish caught deep hooked than not.

 

Angling can only be defended by pointing out that fish are a lower from of life with no conception of pain of fear as we humans know it and that angling is the least of the problems that fish as a whole face in their everyday lifes.

 

Now don't get me wrong I dont advocate the un-necissarymis- treatment of any living thing, I do all I can to look after the fish that I catch but I feel that we need to go right to the basics when defending our sport. Presenting the positives of our sport is fine but we need something behind this as the antis will simply side step all the good points about angling.

 

[ 21. February 2005, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: A Worm On One End........ ]

[PhilC]

Hi Folks

 

They may have banned hunting, but I think the anti's will come up against a completley different element if they try and attack angling.

 

The fox brigade are a singular culture, appealing to a very small sector of the community, but fishing is far bigger, it covers all cultures, all sectors, those who fish for salmon and trout, and pay vast sums of money to do so, right down to those who are in what are determined as the lower earners who take a slice of bread and fish thier local canal.

 

No my friends if we think the riots of the miners strike were bad, I dont think any government would want to take on the power of the angling world.

 

I think main problem to be aware of is the fanatics, the ones who may harrass the lone angler,(at whatever age) or the groups who will try and disrupt angling competitions.

 

Only time will tell. but logic thinking tells me that they will be fighting a losing battle.

 

This is only my opinion, so in conclusion if we stick together and hold fast, fishing is here to stay, it is in our blood and has been bred into us scince man first foraged for food.

 

Regards to all

 

PhilC

[waterman1013]

PhilC has it right.

 

Angling is in our blood.

 

Every man has the right to fish and take food for the table, the fact that some of us chose to return fish, sea, game or coarse, because we consider them inedible or not of suitable size for the table does not change the basic premise.

 

Man is a hunter and angling is how we chose to hunt. It is primeval and those who rail against it rail against every progress made by man. They deny the place of man in this world and the place of animals. They deny science. They deny the existence of God, by whatever name you chose to use, Osiris, Yahweh, Jehovah, Gaia, creation or whatever. They deny their place at the head of the food chain and they deny their ancestors.

 

Those who fail to understand where they come from can have no idea where they are, who they are and why they are here.

 

Anglers need to be strong, stand together and defend a basic human right – to put food on the table.

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Now, can we get back to Lee’s main point. Should individual anglers have access to FACT and how can we achieve that?

 

“I also call upon the FACT board to clear the way for supportive contributions so we have at least the beginnings of some sort of funding to fight the anti's campaign effectively. Individual membership within FACT may well be a bridge too far at the moment but what about say, "FACT Supporters" or "Supporters of FACT" status so rank and file anglers can begin to actively support a national organisation representing them? We have to all stand together now so it remains FACT's overall responsibility to ensure past differences in NAA "DON'T" resurface ever again. I'm certain that anglers will fight for their right to fish, so long as the call comes for us to fight. "Make" that call then FACT people.”

 

Mike

[Sportsman]

I'm sorry Trenters, my friend, I'm not being drawn on this one! Tally-ho and off I go, tootle pip and all that squit, what! Cheerio, for now , time for a harry snifters old boy!!

 

A bit sterotypical don't you think?

Posibly your class prejudice is showing!

I suppose that all coarse fishermen wear flat caps and have whippets on bits of string.

The antis must love you

[Guest sslatter]

Sportsman:

A bit sterotypical don't you think?

Not half as stereotypical as your post, "sportsman". It's what is known in the trade as a "troll". A new member signs in, and plunges straight into the hunting debate, and posts a post like yours.. we've seen it all here before.

 

I do wish you'd keep it away from a site like this. Got anything about angling to contribute?