Countryside Alliance Angling Forum

[Peter Waller]

In many respects, Mr Hampton, you are quite right in what you have just said. The time will come when we anglers will have to be counted, we will have to work together.

 

The Broads area, which we both know well, is under threat from the conservation lobby within the Broads Authority, make no mistake about that. I sit on the committee of the Anglers Conservation Association for Norfolk & Suffolk (ACANS). We have members on the Broads Angling Strategy Group. I am quite aware of what is going on there. We anglers will have to bury our differences when push comes to shove. But atleast it will be anglers fighting with anglers for anglers. (Although in the Broads case we may find ourselves fighting alongside yachtsmen who feel equelly threatened.) But we won't be fighting for something that we do not, and can not, believe in.

 

It might be an old fashioned belief but being true to oneself is important, atleast I think so.

 

Go back a year or two, livebaiting was under threat on Hickling Broad, we won. A few years ago the original Oulton Dyke was blocked off, anglers re-opened it within hours of its closure and it has remained open ever since.

 

However we have just lost the Tea Gardens, in Oulton Dyke, to 24hr moorings so a lesson has to be learnt there.

 

But we have secured an agreement that barbel were once indigenous to the Waveney, so, who knows. As well as excellent Bream, Perch, Pike, Roach, Carp and the odd Catfish we may have legal barbel in our river!

 

But I don't think we shall need to call on the CA to help us. Putting us native Broadlanders up against a wall and telling us what to do is asking for trouble!

 

Peter, I wasn't worried about the fox becoming extinct! I live beside one of the Broads and am more than pleased to see otters and the odd fox in the garden. But as much as I welcome the fox I do regret the fact that it kills the young of the muntjacs that also live in the garden, so maybe, from the muntjacs point of view, I would rather it went away! No, possible extinction is not the issue, far from it. Personally I view fox hunting and bull fighting in much the same light, both as inexcusable!

 

[ 20. February 2003, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: Peter Waller ]

[phil hackett]

Muntjacs in your garden then Pete? Sounds to me like the fox is doing a good conservation job and eradicating a non indigenous herbivore that is destroying the rare botanical flora of the Broads.

 

Now there’s a different slant for the CA to deal with isn’t it?

 

Old foxy a true conservationist and natural, native biological control!

[craig mason]

come on if we support the ca then it gives the animal rights people all the amunition they need.

 

so i urge all anglers to keep well clear of the ca

or we will get tarred with the same brush and it will send out the message that anglers like to kill fish for fun and are not bothered about cruelty to animals.

[Peter M]

To pick up J hamptons point that different sections of angling don't stick together, I would agree that you see too much swiping at each other within angling (eg purists v modern carp anglers)and would like this to stop. for example I'm not a specimen carp angler but did sign a petition to stop our local council taking out the big carp from a local pond even though they promised to put in bream tench and small carp that i like to fish for. lets work together in angling.

[Alan Roe]

Craig in the real world the antis regard us as being just as reprehensible as any other activity that has contact with animals be it hunting or pigeon racing.

 

If you ever look at the agenda of these idiots they want to see a total separation betwixt man and animals thus ignoring the symbiotic interdependance that has existed between the two since time immemorial.

 

So please don't think that the antis will view angling as being any form of a special case!!

 

Like many I have some suspicion about the motives of some of those within the ecchelons of the CA. Though for good practical reasons I do not feel that there is anything great to be gained from a totally isolationist position at this stage.

 

 

From my perspective the most appropriate thing to do is to maintain a distant but reasonably friendly relationship with the CA and in effect this is in essence what is happening at the political level.

 

As individuals you all will have your own choices to make and reasons for those choices however I would repectfully ask all of you not to let pure blind bigotry be one of your defining reasons.

 

Lets face it the reasons behind the proposed ban have very little to do with the welfare of the animals rather it is being driven by a combination of class hatred and political expediency neither of which are in my opinion good reasons for the introduction of this legislation.

 

We note that there are supposedly around three million anglers nationally, a large number admittedly but could we gather together the 1.5 million who marched in support of the case for stopping Tony and Georges war??

 

In the real world they and their wishes will not be listened too neither if the price was right would we.

[peter mccue]

quote:

---

Lets face it the reasons behind the proposed ban have very little to do with the welfare of the animals rather it is being driven by a combination of class hatred and political expediency neither of which are in my opinion good reasons for the introduction of this legislation.

---

Spot on Alan!

[H Jampton]

Peter Waller:

why rear foxes in captivity to release into the wild solely to be hunted?

From another forum:

"While out shooting on boxing day i shot a fox, as it ran by before i shot it, its face looked deformed. but on closer inspection i found that it had stiches in its cheek and had been sprayed with that antibiotic spray, this one had clearly been released."

 

Are hunts now recycling foxes??????

 

[ 21. February 2003, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: H Jampton ]

[Dunk Fairley]

It's quite probable that this fox had been treated by the RSPCA. They take injured wild animals, as well as domestics.

[trent.barbeler]

Dear Peter,

 

"Originally posted by Peter Waller:

why rear foxes in captivity to release into the wild solely to be hunted?"

 

Why rear pheasants in captivity to release into the wild solely to be hunted?

 

Or do the same with Partridges, or Ducks?

 

One could easily see why the shooting fraternity feel that they are next in line.

 

Why rear trout or salmon in captivity to release into the wild solely to be hunted?

 

Why rear course fish in captivity to release into the wild solely to be hunted?

 

Every single argument above "IS" already being used by the ban culture.

 

Regarding the breeding of foxes for hunting purposes. In my area, that has the Belvoir Hunt situated a mere one mile away, and the Quorn Hunt which is another mere 10 miles away, I can confirm;

 

Small spinies, corners of woodland, scrubland or hedgerow banksides away from roads, ARE used as safe havens for foxes on land that both hunts run over. Normally, but not exclusively, there are artificial earths made on site consisting of pipes and underground chambers that foxes use for rearing their young. Whilst the hunts dont actually breed the foxes, they do provide such places that encourage foxes to remain in the area as these places are left undisturbed.

 

However, this practice is nothing like as intense or organised as akin to what gamekeepers undertake from months of the year. Or what the fishbreeders undertake all year round.

 

The "rearing" argument only holds water in any banning sense if one is prepared to carry on the argument against everything else that is reared in the name of hunting also.

 

The "pest control" argument that the foxhunting fraternity use is hogwash. Indeed, as I have said to huntsmen that I know personally many times before, it is totally inept hogwash!!

 

How can they claim in defense of hunting that the hunt does NOT kill many foxes per season, to then go on and claim hunting is an effective method of controlling them as pests? The fact remains to anyone who knows anything about foxes, they are extremely easy to control via high powered rifles in the right hands. Foxes are very easy to call within deadly range to those that possess this knowledge. Under this method of control, the fox never even hears the gun go off.

 

On the whole, I want foxhunting to be left alone. Not because I have strong views on foxhunting either way because I dont. My stance comes from being sick and tired of the baning culture making too much headway towards taking away our rights to choose.

 

Regards,

 

Lee

[Peter Waller]

Lee, the points that you make are well made but there are some 'buts'. But foxes are not bred as a food. But foxes are bred to be killed, many fish species are not. But the above really is irrelevant. But it is this ludicrous claim that the fox is a pest and that is the justification for hunting them. As you say, 'hogwash'.

 

I agree with your valid point about our banning culture. But there is another 'but'!

 

But we live in an evolving society. But we have evolved away from cock-fighting and dog-fighting. Is fox hunting so far removed from dog fighting? Afteral, the fox is a breed of dog, isn't it? A pack of dogs is trained to kill a single dog.

 

Banning is one thing, reconsidering our laws as social values evolve is another.

 

It isn't quite so much that I find traditional fox hunting distasteful and inexcusable but rather that I question the ethics and morality behind the whole proceedure. It is certainly NOT a social or wealth devide issue.

 

For the record I am not opposed to many of the issues that the CA has become involved in. However I do find the muddying of the water by the CA to mask other agendas a questionable tactic. Had the CA left angling alone then I would have been quite happy to ignore them!

 

[ 22. February 2003, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: Peter Waller ]