Otter

[Dick Dastardly]

Andy maybe in years to come once the otter population has become self sustaining it might be feasible but.....

Firstly despite what these idiots would have us believe there just ain't that many of them out there yet! and secondly these animals have cost money to re introduce,how they going to justify the expense if they now start culling them?

 

So where is "our representing body" then while we are heading towards a possibly very serious own goal? Are they even aware of it?

[andy_youngs]

Do you really think that Otters are that established that they could be taken and still have a viable population?

 

EDIT: I think people see Otters where they are no Otters, are there really as many of them out there as some would have us believe?

 

Yes, I think in certain catchments, otters are plentiful enough to withstand limited harvesting. I use the word 'harvesting', rather than 'hunting' advisedly, because it is less emotive and more accurate to my beliefs as to what should be happening. I did say that licenses should only be granted on a 'catchment by catchment' basis. That's what they do in Canada.

 

The EA should be appraising what's happening, and granting a 'take' license based on the resident populaton levels. And I really do believe that certain catchments have exceeded their natural saturation limit of otters due largely to the abundance of artificially stocked lakes in many river valleys, and the artificial stocking of the rivers themselves.

[Dick Dastardly]

Ive just sent the following message to Nick Blackshaw on Facebook-

 

"Nick I see your post and our comments om it have been removed from the AN Facebook page.I dont know if you did this yourself or Elton removed it.You've stirred up quite a hornets nest here.Are you up to coming on to the AN Forum itself to discuss/defend your views?"

..

[andy_youngs]

Andy, contrary to popular belief (well, that of crap anglers and the daily blurb), otters are still not common in the UK but are expanding their range and, hopefully, building their numbers to become our top native apex (aquatic habitat) predator. I would be very surprised to see licensed hunting of otters before otters had reached peak population numbers which is probably decades away....given that according to some anglers, fish numbers are so low otters will not achieve maximum sustainable population status for many decades to come....if at all.

Don't agree with that Worms. I think it is remarkable how the otters have managed to re-establish themselves. Don't get me wrong, I think that is a very good thing. But there comes a time when you have to accept that nature has reclaimed her natural territory.

 

In the meantime, calls for culls of a protected native species by narrow-minded single non-native species/specimen huggers will just bring every tree/bird/mammal/fish hugger out in paroxysms of rage demanding the banning of angling.....To be honest, the way it's going with this almost fascist atitude of some (and I hesitate to use the word) 'anglers' I'd be more inclined to back them than muddy puddle crap anglers if they're intent on trying to kill wildlife rather than enjoy it on a natural basis!

I'm not calling for a cull, I'm calling for 'sustainable harvesting'. I agree that there are plenty of tree/bird/mammel/fish huggers out there, and they need to be challenged. After all, most of them are quite happy to go to Tesco's and buy a Bernard Matthews reared chicken that spent it's short, sad life in appalling, squalid conditions. But don't be so scared of the public.

[Rusty]

Let's nip this in the bud and separate ourselves (as anglers) from mindless fools who propose such anti-angling idiocy...?

 

Anglers For Otters maybe? Easy to remember, rolls of the tounge well and a good idea.

[Worms]

Don't agree with that Worms. I think it is remarkable how the otters have managed to re-establish themselves. Don't get me wrong, I think that is a very good thing. But there comes a time when you have to accept that nature has reclaimed her natural territory.

 

Precisely my point...I do accept that nature has reclaimed her natural territory. Now we have w4nkers who only fish for artificially reared, artificially fattened non-native fish in overstocked muddy ponds that are totally unnatural. That is precisely why I am against any kind of 'mamagement on any native animal that, (sorry to say that you're wrong) is not up to natural levels yet.

 

 

I'm not calling for a cull, I'm calling for 'sustainable harvesting'. I agree that there are plenty of tree/bird/mammel/fish huggers out there, and they need to be challenged. After all, most of them are quite happy to go to Tesco's and buy a Bernard Matthews reared chicken that spent it's short, sad life in appalling, squalid conditions. But don't be so scared of the public.

 

Not quite the same thing is it? I imagine that the majority of the country buy supermarket food but how many would sanction the killing of an otter to wear an otter pelt coat?...That kind of logic is probably worse than culling based on a predation argument to a lot of people...kill it because it's worth money! Shaky ground there, don't expect me as an angler or a member of the general public to support that one....nature manages itself, otters will neither eat all of the fish nor overpopulate the country.

 

I'm not in the slightest bit scared of the public....I am the public!

[andy_youngs]

Not quite the same thing is it? I imagine that the majority of the country buy supermarket food but how many would sanction the killing of an otter to wear an otter pelt coat?...

In this country? probably none (apart from me). But that doesn't mean that the Americans, the Canadians, the Scandinavians, the Chinese, or the Russians share those sentiments. And it doesn't make the UK public right.

 

That kind of logic is probably worse than culling based on a predation argument to a lot of people...kill it because it's worth money! Shaky ground there, don't expect me as an angler or a member of the general public to support that one....nature manages itself, otters will neither eat all of the fish nor overpopulate the country.

I'm not in the slightest bit scared of the public....I am the public!

OK, I'm sure you're being true to yourself. But that's all I'm trying to do also. I'm sure you're not scared of the public. But sometimes I think it is necessary to stand up to them because the hypocracy of it all leaves a bad taste in the mouth..

[Phone]

All,

 

In deference to Gozzers logical suggestion I still read the "OTTER" threads. Gluton for punishment aren't I?

 

Anyway, it has produced results! Finally, I AGREE with Andy. Alas, I also agree with Worms. I seriously doubt the UK has a viable population for commercial sustainable harvest. Nevertheless, are there not "reasonable" circumstances where the creatures could be moved or destroyed? I'm having a difficult time getting around a definition for 'angler-style orientated people'. Are they (we) distinguishable by some physical feature whilst walking down the street?

 

Does it make to much sense to consider yea or nay on a case basis by "owner" petition submitted governemnt and economic experts?

 

Phone

 

Edit: it just occured to me. What a wonderful way to expand the public sector in the UK. You need an "OTTER CZAR"

Edited January 13, 2012 by Phone

[kirisute]

All,

 

In deference to Gozzers logical suggestion I still read the "OTTER" threads. Gluton for punishment aren't I?

 

Anyway, it has produced results! Finally, I AGREE with Andy. Alas, I also agree with Worms. I seriously doubt the UK has a viable population for commercial sustainable harvest. Nevertheless, are there not "reasonable" circumstances where the creatures could be moved or destroyed? I'm having a difficult time getting around a definition for 'angler-style orientated people'. Are they (we) distinguishable by some physical feature whilst walking down the street?

 

Does it make to much sense to consider yea or nay on a case basis by "owner" petition submitted governemnt and economic experts?

 

Phone

Comes down to otter pr!

Currently mr and mrs otter are natures golden children in the eyes of joe public! Whilst that is the case you will have a hard time pushing through any idea of moving them....let alone killing them...and god forbid farming them for fur!

your dealing with a creature that I would suggest 90% of the UK. Non fishing public adore and would dearly love to see in the wild. On top of that the considerable time and money invested in their re introduction.

Andy I can see your point...but the UK would never accept it under your proposals as viable fur trade. Mr fox and his PR team are doing well protecting him, let alone an otter with far more public goodwill!

Having said that otters are not a horde of killing machines wiping out fish stocks like a plague of locusts.....I've never seen solid evidence to support that happening yet...sure I've seen evidence of them taking fish....but decimating a fishery? Even taking the term at its literal meaning..killing 1 in 10 fish.....an otter would need to be prolific, largely undisturbed and remain superbly ninja like in it's stealth to perform such a feat on a fishery without getting pushed off in one form or another...legally or otherwise.

I simply don't believe it's happening.

Our club lake supposedly had otters, costing the club £2000 in fencing and labour.....from all reports I don't think I heard of more than 8 or 9 fish being confirmed dead....and from photos I wouldn't lay good money on any of them being otter kills. However, it would appear one dug under the fencing and was seen inside....dead fish found on the lakes island appear to be otter kill.....fence was put back within a couple of days and nothing has been found since!

That's how any club would react to otter predation I would suggest....and if that experience is common then otters simply don't get the chance for serious constant damage in lakes at least.

In rivers...then nature will take it course! Otters are part of our UK natural heritage! Natural balance will prevail.

[andy_youngs]

it just occured to me. What a wonderful way to expand the public sector in the UK. You need an "OTTER CZAR"

It'll never happen ... that would be far too sensible.