Killing fish

[robtherake]

As you say, how can you define seriously injured accurately? I am sure if you deep hooked a salmon and bopped it on the head when you didnt have a license to do so you would be in pretty deep trouble but if it was an unintentional capture and an unfortunate deep hook then what choice do you have. The law would be fairly conflicted here I would have thought if you got dragged in front of a judge.

 

Do you know if any of the studies included deaths by simple stress of being caught? Serious question by the way, I am genuinely curious. How many fish (%) die as a result of just being caught? I would have thought the stress involved would be pretty high for the fish and a creature of that size surely doesnt cope well with the stresses it puts on their bodies.

 

Unless it's patently obvious that you have inflicted a life-threatening injury on your catch, you can never be sure how much the fishing process contributes to fish mortality. If it bothers an angler that much, then they should play Fishsim instead, or shun field sports entirely.

None of us wants our fishy friends to suffer, but if we dwelt on it too much then we wouldn't go at all.

 

To play them sensibly, handle them carefully, minimise time out of the water, return them after sufficient recovery (where needed) and to deal with them as your conscience demands if their chance of survival seems slim is the best that can be expected of any of us.

[AddictedToScopex]

It seems to support my opinion on all of that weighing and photographing (which is why I selected it )

Interesting reading indeed. Interesting though how we dont see many more carp or specimen bream or tench floating belly up if this data is applicable to them also. Could it be that the trout is (suprisingly) more fragile than all those species? I had always thought of trout as rather a hardy fish.

 

We have surely all seen with our own eyes people hauling carp and taking literally 5 minutes to go through the motions of unhooking, weighing, photographing and even carrying them to show their mates and yet even in the height of summer when DO is at its lowest we dont see countless carp floating in the margins.

Edited August 23, 2012 by AddictedToScopex

[robtherake]

It seems that most fish released in good condition will survive and a lot depends on variables such as water temp, dissolved oxygen and species of fish. By far and away the worst thing is where the fish is hooked. Lip hooked fish have a much greater chance of survival that deep hooked fish. The other problem with deep hooking is that the fish often spends longer out of the water whilst attempts continue to retrieve the hook.

This was an interesting snippet taken from an Alaskan fishing site.

 

" A recent study done at Queens University in Ontario, Canada which looked at physiological effects of brief air exposure in exhaustively exercised (played out) rainbow trout (oncorhynchus mykiss), is very revealing and educational toward showing just how precarious and detrimental, improper catch and releasing fishing can be. I will be the first to say that even as a professional fishing guide and well accomplished recreational sportfisherman, I did not know all the facts when it comes to releasing the quarry of my angling efforts.

 

I will attempt to share with you the most scientifically substantiated information I have seen on catch and release methods. The study looked at survival rates of played out rainbow trout that were also exposed to air for 60 seconds, 30 seconds, and 0 seconds. Additionally, the survival rates on non-exercised rainbow trout were used as a control for the study. Get ready, the results are surprising.

 

As you'd expect, the control group had a 100% survival rate. The rainbow trout that were exhaustively exercised and not exposed to air survived at an 88% rate. However, the rate of survival for fish exposed to air for 30 seconds was only 62%, and those that were held out of the water for 60 seconds had a mere 28% chance of living to fight another day. The researchers attributed the higher mortality among fish exposed to air to a significant reduction of oxygen content in the fish's blood.

 

If these statistics leave you wondering or unconvinced, consider the following analogy: Holding a fish out of the water for 60 seconds or even 30 seconds would be like a human running full speed for a half an hour and then immediately being submerged in water for up to one full minute. Many of us would not fare very well under those conditions and if we did survive, we'd surely carry some ill effects, some possibly permanent.

 

This study will change the pace of my Kodak moment and expedite the time it takes me to put my catch back into the water. Ideally, keeping the fish submerged in the water while you take pictures will help tremendously toward making sure the fish doesn't eventually go belly up.

 

Some other important methods for handling fish you intend to release include touching the fish as little as possible, not squeezing the fish, and never putting your fingers inside the fish's gills. The more you handle a fish and run your hand(s) along its sides, the more that fish is likely to be depleted of its protective slime layer, thus increasing its risk of fungal infection and decreasing its ability to gracefully cut through the water."

 

It seems to support my opinion on all of that weighing and photographing (which is why I selected it )

 

A fascinating post, but on heavily fished waters there would be few fish left in a short space of time if those mortality figures applied equally to all species. I suspect some are more susceptible to stress than others.

Trout in particular either end up as supper or (in a lot of cases) are released very quickly post-capture, so perhaps the actual fishing scenario versus the experimental results would be quite different in practice.

 

In my mis-spent youth, I transferred a quantity of tench and crucians from a pond which was being filled in to one where I could fish for them free of charge. Without dwelling on the ethical considerations, those fish spent several hours in a keepnet, followed by a 20 minute car journey in a large plastic bag (no water, but plenty damp). Despite observing the relatively small water they were transferred to for several times a day over a period of several weeks I didn't once see a fish that had gone belly-up. That's not to say that there weren't casualties, but none that I could determine. What's more, they were being re-caught within a couple of days of release.

Edited August 23, 2012 by robtherake

[Anderoo]

It was!

 

It should be the case that when someone writes something that it goes without saying that it is in their opinion. Why do we have all this IMHO. IMO nonsense, one can see whose opinion it is in by looking at the authors name.

 

Magic Like called autumn 'perch season' I suppose.

 

Anyway, I hear all the time that fish can't feel pain and that catching them has no ill effects on them, assuming they survive. If that's true, does it hurt when they die?

 

Can they experience distress?

 

If so, is the extent of distress a fish experiences while being hooked and played (and possibly weighed and photographed) and returned any less or more than what it experiences as it's dying after being returned?

 

If you're a fish, does dying hurt?

 

Does any of it matter?

 

It seems to me that we have either put a living creature through a distressing and/or painful experience for our own amusement, or fish are not able to experience those feelings and it is none the wiser and doesn't care about getting caught.

 

If the former, getting caught is possibly a worse experience than a quick death. So just catching and releasing fish is extremely irresposible and hard to justify. If we then go on to kill it, either quickly or slowly, is alomost a moot point.

 

If the latter, do what you like to them, they are unable to feel anything anyway.

[Worms]

Interesting reading indeed. Interesting though how we dont see many more carp or specimen bream or tench floating belly up if this data is applicable to them also. Could it be that the trout is (suprisingly) more fragile than all those species? I had always thought of trout as rather a hardy fish.

 

We have surely all seen with our own eyes people hauling carp and taking literally 5 minutes to go through the motions of unhooking, weighing, photographing and even carrying them to show their mates and yet even in the height of summer when DO is at its lowest we dont see countless carp floating in the margins.

No but, we do see lots of photos of giant carp that have been "decimated" by otters...

 

The combined effects of catching and releasing fish time after time has a serious effect on their health (lactate build up) that can take days to balance. If the fish keeps getting caught it's just sitting there, knackered and out of shape waiting to be predated...the same scenario that I believe affected the Adam's Mill fishery where 'everybody' was trying to catch the record barbel!

 

...but I digress...

[Sportsman]

Interesting reading indeed. Interesting though how we dont see many more carp or specimen bream or tench floating belly up if this data is applicable to them also. Could it be that the trout is (suprisingly) more fragile than all those species? I had always thought of trout as rather a hardy fish.

 

We have surely all seen with our own eyes people hauling carp and taking literally 5 minutes to go through the motions of unhooking, weighing, photographing and even carrying them to show their mates and yet even in the height of summer when DO is at its lowest we dont see countless carp floating in the margins.

 

I think that more fish die than we are aware of, they don't all float belly up. I am also sure that species are different. I should think that you could probably take a carp down the pub to show your mates and it would still survive.

Rainbow trout I can't comment greatly on because all of the C&R trout fisheries I frequented would not have allowed the type of fish handling seen routinely on coarse fisheries. Most hooked trout don't leave the water, or at least the landing net. When fishing from boat or float tube I would bring the fish alongside, grip the fly with forceps and remove it without touching the fish. The only reason I netted the fish was if it was larger than normal and I felt it might need to rest prior to release.

Celebrity anglers on TV don't do fish handling skills any favours. Their skill seems to vary from bad to appalling. It could be that they need to show their catch to the camera but they set a dreadful example.

[AddictedToScopex]

I think that more fish die than we are aware of, they don't all float belly up. I am also sure that species are different. I should think that you could probably take a carp down the pub to show your mates and it would still survive.

Rainbow trout I can't comment greatly on because all of the C&R trout fisheries I frequented would not have allowed the type of fish handling seen routinely on coarse fisheries. Most hooked trout don't leave the water, or at least the landing net. When fishing from boat or float tube I would bring the fish alongside, grip the fly with forceps and remove it without touching the fish. The only reason I netted the fish was if it was larger than normal and I felt it might need to rest prior to release.

Celebrity anglers on TV don't do fish handling skills any favours. Their skill seems to vary from bad to appalling. It could be that they need to show their catch to the camera but they set a dreadful example.

Strange feeling this. I agree.

[Nicepix]

Different species have different abilities to survice out of water. Carp can be kept out of water, as long as they are kept wet, for several days. The Dutch used to hang them in sacks from hooks in their cellars, feeding them milk pobs to cleanse their guts before they were eaten.

 

I return trout straight away by unhooking them in the water wherever possible. I also hold them facing the current before release, same with barbel, another hard fighting species that become exhausted on being caught. Carp and other species are kept in the landing net and unhooked straight away wherever possible. Lay the fish down, unhook it, place the wet netting over the fish, get the camera from my pocket and it is a quick process to record the image and return the fish still in the net. If I need to weigh a fish I will either do it in the net or put it in a carp sack, back in the water for a few minutes, then weigh it and return it.

 

On the subject of killing salmon and trout in excess of your catch limit. Legally, you should kill any fish that you believe to be in distress and beyond help. That does not mean that you are able to take it home. Kill it, leave it and if anyone challenges you use the Animal Welfare Act to justify your actions.

[Andrew]

I have some (Klinik)and once used it regularly but without evidence of it's effectiveness (I don't fish waters where the fish have names, unless they give them to each other) it now lives in a big bag, creaking at the seams with stuff I don't use any more.

 

Thats the stuff Rob

 

Some interesting opinions on this topic.

I'm in the class that a fish shoul be dispatched with a clean blow to the bonce. A knife ? to kill it, never used one TBH, and as for the deed of dispatching a fish, as i have said one of the lads on the boat done that deed for me.

 

If a fish feels pain, how can you take every precaution not to inflict any serious pain,surely playing a fish for a 1 minute or 15 minutes would inflict pain. I take every precaution not to mistreat my catch, if its deep hooked, the line is cut as close to the hook as possible.

Obviously we are all not the same with care for our catch. Go to a commercial and see the state of some of the fishes mouths, terrible state of affairs. Missing lips, missing eye, damaged fins, obviously caused by ripping the hook out.

 

IMHO totally wrong.

 

Legally, you should kill any fish that you believe to be in distress and beyond help. That does not mean that you are able to take it home. Kill it, leave it and if anyone challenges you use the Animal Welfare Act to justify your actions.

 

Says it all really, does that include any fish other that game fish NicePix

Edited August 23, 2012 by Andrew

[Sportsman]

Strange feeling this. I agree.

 

Don't worry, the feeling won't last long