Are we responsible?

[The Flying Tench]

Many believe we are in a universe where everything is decided by one atom or sub-atomic particle hitting another. And the same thing happens in our brains. So choice is an illusion and everything that happens is deterministic.

 

So what justification do we have for punishing wrongdoers when they have no choice about the wrongs they have done?

[Emma two]

Many believe we are in a universe where everything is decided by one atom or sub-atomic particle hitting another. And the same thing happens in our brains. So choice is an illusion and everything that happens is deterministic.

 

So what justification do we have for punishing wrongdoers when they have no choice about the wrongs they have done?

Dawkins, R. (1989), The Selfish gene. Oxford University Press.

[Steve Walker]

So what justification do we have for punishing wrongdoers when they have no choice about the wrongs they have done?

Do we need justification, when our choice to punish them is also illusory?

[corydoras]

Many believe we are in a universe where everything is decided by one atom or sub-atomic particle hitting another. And the same thing happens in our brains. So choice is an illusion and everything that happens is deterministic.

 

So what justification do we have for punishing wrongdoers when they have no choice about the wrongs they have done?

I thought Christians believed in freewill?

[Ken L]

I'm not sure about free will but I do believe in deja vu.

 

Not sure why I let Cory go back then. Eyesight is entirely dependent on quantum effects so a catagorical dismissal of the roll of QM in higher brain functions is rartther presumptive.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Ken L

[gozzer]

Many believe we are in a universe where everything is decided by one atom or sub-atomic particle hitting another. And the same thing happens in our brains. So choice is an illusion and everything that happens is deterministic.

 

So what justification do we have for punishing wrongdoers when they have no choice about the wrongs they have done?

 

You might as well ask, what justification do we have for curing an illness? The virus/bacteria, etc, are only doing what they exist to do.

The simple answer is survival. We have laid down certain things we consider to be essential for our continued existence as a society. These may vary according to location, circumstance, and instilled beliefs, but are there to support the relevant social structure. Apart from procreation and survival, everything else is 'man made', and irrelevant, other than to support a way of life created to ensure those two things.

As for "everything that happens is deterministic", whether a choice/decision is made on the basis of past experience, doctrine, provocation, duress, or even the toss of a coin, something has made you make that choice.

 

Philosophy is just another man made thing that helps to pass the time, and makes us feel more important than we really are.

If you want an insight into just how insignificant we are, watch this video.

 

 

John.

[corydoras]

I'm not sure about free will but I do believe in deja vu.

 

Not sure why I let Cory go back then. Eyesight is entirely dependent on quantum effects so a catagorical dismissal of the roll of QM in higher brain functions is rartther presumptive.

Back when? Evidence for QM affecting vision?

[RUDD]

Many believe we are in a universe where everything is decided by one atom or sub-atomic particle hitting another. And the same thing happens in our brains. So choice is an illusion and everything that happens is deterministic.

 

So what justification do we have for punishing wrongdoers when they have no choice about the wrongs they have done?

 

Has your opening paragraph not answered your question?

[The Flying Tench]

Do we need justification, when our choice to punish them is also illusory?

An excellent point!

Dawkins, R. (1989), The Selfish gene. Oxford University Press.

So what does Dawkins say on the subject in that book? Does he see choice as an illusion?

[The Flying Tench]

I thought Christians believed in freewill?

I think most Christians believe in free will, though I guess hyper-Calvinists probably don't with their strong belief in pre-destination.

 

To my understanding Christians and atheists face the same difficulty on this one. Most of us believe in (at least partly free) choice, and yet there is the strong possibility of determinism at a micro level. The question is whether these can be reconciled. I am a complete amateur on this one, but if I had to express a view I suppose I would say that valid descriptions of what goes on can be made at a micro level and a macro level and both can be true. It's not a perfect illustration, but consider author language and actor language. Hamlet, in a sense, cannot make any choices as it is all predetermined by Shakespeare. And yet within the play he does make genuine choices.

 

But who knows? I'm pretty sure this is a question the philosphers use a lot of ink on!