Wozzis then ?

[Phone]

Steve ,

 

Shad are dinks.

 

Phone

 

(It no where nearly resembles an American Shad)

[Vagabond]

 

1.looks a bit 'orfe' to me.

 

2 Did you hide the mouth intentionally to throw us off Dave?

1. "Ide" count the scales if I were you Both roach and rudd have a LL count in the low forties, whereas orfe have a LL count of 55 or more. This fish has a LL count of around 41. Any sort of orfe hybrid would show more scales than that

 

2. No - even in the net the mouth looks "terminal" and I can assure you that the mouth was most un-rudd-like

 

The fish came towards the end of a session in which I had about twenty each of roach and rudd up to about half a pound apiece, All of those fish were either typical roach or typical rudd, so the illustrated fish was very much a one-off. It was the biggest fish of the session (apart from a nuisance mirror carp) and as you can see was about a foot long, When I saw it in the water I thought rudd because of colour, and certainly the dorsal fin was set well back.

 

OTOH the body shape is roach-like, the eye iris is roach-red, and the mouth is roach-like.

 

The club record for the water (basically a farm pond) is 10 oz for roach and 8 oz for rudd..

Although this fish was close to a pound in weight I didn't bother to weigh it, and won't be "claiming" either record - it has been entered in my log as a rudd-roach hybrid.

 

While all this was going on, Norma was fishing a few yards to my left. Although she has had 212 species world-wide, she has never fished for or caught carp before. I had set her the task of catching a carp on dog biscuit from the margins - there was a very deep margin by her feet, with willow bushes and flags immediately to her left providing a carp haven.

 

She fed the dog-biscuits until the carp were queing up for them, and then extracted this one. So her species count will go up to 213 when I get round to altering it

 

 

You can see the swim it came from, just under the carp's head.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Vagabond

[Vagabond]

Im having ID problems myself this season! Catching a lot of small Chub/Dace on the Thames and despite checking to see if the Dorsal has a concave or convex trailing edge still cant tell?

Very difficult in young specimens to do it on the dorsal alone, despite what the textbooks say (and hack writers repeat ad infinitum). Sometimes the anal fin edge is a better indicator (same characters - convex chub, concave dace)

 

As Ayjay says, the mouth is usually a quite reliable indicator, and I go by the "feel" of the fish - dace are quite firm and chunky - something never mentioned in the books, but apparent when you have caught a few of each at the same session. A dace "feels" much more solid than a small chub - and usually fights better (more muscular ?)

 

If the fish is big enough to qualify as a notable dace in your book, you could do a lateral line count (as a general hint, do it by taking a close up pic rather than trying it on the live fish - photo, get the fish back, count scales on the photo at home !)

 

LL is usually less than 48 (typically about 45) in a chub, 48 or more in a dace.(typically 49 or 50) If it comes out as exactly 48 you are back to square one !

Edited July 24, 2014 by Vagabond

[Steve Walker]

I too have been guilty of looking a gift chub in the mouth,

 

I had about 30 little chub in a mixed bag last time I fished, along with dace, gudgeon and perch, and while most of them were very obviously chub, a few of them had me looking carefully at them.

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks guys. I don't suppose it really matters but I just feel I should know! There is one swim I fish on the Thames just down from Shepperton Weir where I seem to catch mainly small chub and dace I can tell the larger fish instantly,the medium ones after checking a bit closer but the real "dinks" (for my old mate Phone ) its nigh on impossible! even the gobs look similar! chuck in a few small skinny roach and Im totally lost at this size!

 

I don't think I've ever caught a Roach/Rudd hybrid either Dave. Roach/Bream and Rudd/Bream (I believe) but not a Roach/Rudd.

[Vagabond]

I don't think I've ever caught a Roach/Rudd hybrid either Dave. Roach/Bream and Rudd/Bream (I believe) but not a Roach/Rudd.

Its only the third (AFAIK) that I have had in 73 years fishing !

At the risk of boring everyone again, one of the others came from a reservoir near Hastings and weighed 3 lb 12 oz. The late Roger Standen found a Five-plus pounder dead at the same water, which was examined by some official bunch of scientists (can't remember who) and confirmed as roach x rudd.

 

If you look at the picture you will see many similarities with the fish in post #1

 

Roach x bream are common enough, and rudd x bream used to be common in Ireland, but I have only had them from one water in this country

[JV44]

Thanks guys. I don't suppose it really matters but I just feel I should know! There is one swim I fish on the Thames just down from Shepperton Weir where I seem to catch mainly small chub and dace I can tell the larger fish instantly,the medium ones after checking a bit closer but the real "dinks" (for my old mate Phone ) its nigh on impossible! even the gobs look similar! chuck in a few small skinny roach and Im totally lost at this size!

 

I don't think I've ever caught a Roach/Rudd hybrid either Dave. Roach/Bream and Rudd/Bream (I believe) but not a Roach/Rudd.

Budgie myself and Steve Walker spent a day last year float fishing there from a mates boat and lots of Chublets ,Dace and Roach were had ,I have also caught some turbo sized Ruffe from there .

Zander are up that far as well I believe,they are one of those Pike Perch hybrids aren`t they?

And of course your favourite Catfish.....not in massive numbers though

[Chris Plumb]

Think I'd have just plopped it back as a roach without a second look!!!

 

C.

[Rusty]

Im having ID problems myself this season! Catching a lot of small Chub/Dace on the Thames and despite checking to see if the Dorsal has a concave or convex trailing edge still cant tell?

 

Don't think you'll ever make a howler like this one Budgie, #9 of this thread;

 

http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/2902004-guess-the-weight-competition/

[Steve Walker]

 

Don't think you'll ever make a howler like this one Budgie, #9 of this thread;

 

http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/2902004-guess-the-weight-competition/

I hope that was the result of the effect of a *very* good bottle of red!