Carp in Small Rivers ?

[Tigger]

The Barbel is now more widely spread, and is reaching sizes that anglers only twenty years ago could hardly dare to dream about. Before the last Ice Age, the Barbel (Barbus Barbus) was only found in rivers that flowed to the eastern coast of the UK and were actually tributaries of the mighty River Rhine system in mid Europe. After the Ice Age, and the separation of the UK from mainland Europe, the Barbel were still native only to our eastern flowing rivers. Barbel populations in all of our other rivers stem from stockings by man.

 

 

It strikes me that someone has missed something out in the above. I always beleived that Doggaland / English channel was created by the water held by the northern glaciers. When this glacier melted the water flooded doggalnad and other low lying areas. Therefore how could there be any fish in the northern rivers as no fish could have been alive under a glacier and when that ice melted there was a barrier between england and europe (the sea).

IMO no one really knows and so the theory of barbel only being naturally present in the easterly flowing rivers is flawed. Lets face it even if they where only in easterly flowing rivers over time eggs from the fish would most likely have been naturally passed into westerly flowing waters by animals and birds anyhow.

[chesters1]

Same with carp ,its regarded as an introduction but perhaps it was a reintroduction ,doggerland had rivers and down those rivers would come fish from the what is now continent

 

I have never caught a river carp its been 45 years since i fished slow moving rivers (never heard of river carp then) and probably not suited to the upper wey the only river i fish now

Edited January 18, 2015 by chesters1

[Ken L]

Lets face it even if they where only in easterly flowing rivers over time eggs from the fish would most likely have been naturally passed into westerly flowing waters by animals and birds anyhow.

But they weren't. Barbel were deliberately introduced into the Seven in (I think) 1958 - and from there into the Wye, Usk, Dee, Avon etc.

[lutra]

Yes I think the

 

The Barbel is now more widely spread, and is reaching sizes that anglers only twenty years ago could hardly dare to dream about. Before the last Ice Age, the Barbel (Barbus Barbus) was only found in rivers that flowed to the eastern coast of the UK and were actually tributaries of the mighty River Rhine system in mid Europe. After the Ice Age, and the separation of the UK from mainland Europe, the Barbel were still native only to our eastern flowing rivers. Barbel populations in all of our other rivers stem from stockings by man.

 

 

It strikes me that someone has missed something out in the above. I always beleived that Doggaland / English channel was created by the water held by the northern glaciers. When this glacier melted the water flooded doggalnad and other low lying areas. Therefore how could there be any fish in the northern rivers as no fish could have been alive under a glacier and when that ice melted there was a barrier between england and europe (the sea).

IMO no one really knows and so the theory of barbel only being naturally present in the easterly flowing rivers is flawed. Lets face it even if they where only in easterly flowing rivers over time eggs from the fish would most likely have been naturally passed into westerly flowing waters by animals and birds anyhow.

Yes I also don't think there was barbel under the ice in yorkshire. They may or may not have survived up other more southern rivers like the thames.

 

The sea you talk of was fresh water until it got so big that it broke through the last bit of land that connected us to europe. As it grow in size and flooded over rivers south of the ice, it will have forced the fish in them to look for a new home. Yorkshire might have seemed ok before the tykes got there.

[Tigger]

Yes I think the

 

Yes I also don't think there was barbel under the ice in yorkshire. They may or may not have survived up other more southern rivers like the thames.

 

The sea you talk of was fresh water until it got so big that it broke through the last bit of land that connected us to europe. As it grow in size and flooded over rivers south of the ice, it will have forced the fish in them to look for a new home. Yorkshire might have seemed ok before the tykes got there.

 

 

There's many different theorys and that's just one of them Brian, as I said no one actually knows. Since no one will ever know what rivers (if any) barbel had inhabited naturally I see no reason why they shouldn't be introduced into them all if they can survive in them....jmo of course .

[lutra]

There's many different theorys and that's just one of them Brian, as I said no one actually knows. Since no one will ever know what rivers (if any) barbel had inhabited naturally I see no reason why they shouldn't be introduced into them all if they can survive in them....jmo of course .

Can't say I've come across many other theories that stand up to much Ian. What have you heard?

[lutra]

The Barbel is now more widely spread, and is reaching sizes that anglers only twenty years ago could hardly dare to dream about. Before the last Ice Age, the Barbel (Barbus Barbus) was only found in rivers that flowed to the eastern coast of the UK and were actually tributaries of the mighty River Rhine system in mid Europe. After the Ice Age, and the separation of the UK from mainland Europe, the Barbel were still native only to our eastern flowing rivers. Barbel populations in all of our other rivers stem from stockings by man.

 

 

It strikes me that someone has missed something out in the above. I always beleived that Doggaland / English channel was created by the water held by the northern glaciers. When this glacier melted the water flooded doggalnad and other low lying areas. Therefore how could there be any fish in the northern rivers as no fish could have been alive under a glacier and when that ice melted there was a barrier between england and europe (the sea).

IMO no one really knows and so the theory of barbel only being naturally present in the easterly flowing rivers is flawed. Lets face it even if they where only in easterly flowing rivers over time eggs from the fish would most likely have been naturally passed into westerly flowing waters by animals and birds anyhow.

Any talk of barbel eggs being transported by birds or animals would seem highly unlikely to me. They don't spawn in the shallow weedy margins like some fish that may have been transported about like this.

[Latimeria]

I thought Doggerland was that car park at the bottom end of Dinckley?

 

https://humanities.exeter.ac.uk/archaeology/research/projects/title_89282_en.html

 

http://log.doggerland.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/doggerland4.png

 

Fascinating subject, bumped into a team researching the area a few times.

 

River carp are best thought of as otter junkfood IMO.

[gozzer]

So all these foreign fish are the tykes (gozzers) fault.

 

Thanks for bringing me into this Brian, anyone would think it was one of my pet subjects . If I'm going to be blamed for anything, I'd rather it was for introducing barbel to Yorkshire, than introducing carp to anything but a ploughed field!

Je suis Charlie Carp.

 

http://www.charliecarp.com/

 

John.

Edited January 19, 2015 by gozzer

[Dales]

Thanks for bringing me into this Brian, anyone would think it was one of my pet subjects . If I'm going to be blamed for anything, I'd rather it was for introducing barbel to Yorkshire, than introducing carp to anything but a ploughed field!

Je suis Charlie Carp.

 

http://www.charliecarp.com/

 

John.

 

i wonder if they have taken down the website incase it offends anyone?