cod closure in the north sea

[Guest challenge]

Why is that challenge?

Well lets put it this way, if they did not have this fishery (local boats to Whitby that is) you could take away a third of there yearly earnings.

At least it would for the few boats that do ok on it.

When I was commercial fishing back in the late eighties we where often stopped in November because of lack of quota. It’s nothing new.

We often changed over and went prawning for a few weeks prior to Christmas.

[slackline]

I heard that some of the whitby boats have gone to the prawns to make sure they still have a quota for that job and maintain a track record for prawns

[Guest challenge]

I heard that some of the whitby boats have gone to the prawns to make sure they still have a quota for that job and maintain a track record for prawns

If they have caught there quota that they have been given then surely that is a good sign?

It, when they give you a quota and you cannot catch it that there is a problem.

http://www.eefpo.co.uk/home

[The doctor]

Well lets put it this way, if they did not have this fishery (local boats to Whitby that is) you could take away a third of there yearly earnings.

 

But you keep telling us all that there is no cod crisis challenge.

 

Lets put this into perspective, you had to stop 2 months before the end of the official fishing year due to lack of quota left in the 1980's when the North Sea quota was 300,000 tonnes, and yes the fleets where larger then in comparrison to the present.

 

Now your saying that without the herring spawn cod fishery (which allegedly supports a third of income to local boats (which is not exactly the North Sea fishery as a whole)) they would never catch their quota, which for the North Sea in 2006 is 27,300 tonnes. Statistically that is more than an order of magnitude reduction from the 1980's in availability of cod, yes I appreciate that effort has reduced, but it hasn't reduced in line with the decline of cod stocks and available quota (66% reduction in fleet capacity (based on the Scottish white fish sector) in comparisson to a 1000% decrease in cod quota or 10 to the power of 3 (10/3).

 

What you are seeing onboard Cheiftan is selective Hotspot fishing (not excellent fisheries management as you choose to call it), and please before you and Mr Motorola get up on your defensive high horses I am not having a go at John. He provides an excellent service for his anglers, which is clearly what they want as they return to him on a monthly, seasonal & annual basis. I too have had some great long trips on Chieftan.

 

Yes it appears that 2005 was a reasonably good year for recruitment in terms of cod, but they are hardly going to set the world alight in terms of specimen fish for a good few years. Hitting your quota of 1-gp fish at the back of a good recruitment year is hardly a sign of good times ahead. this was the problem with the haddock fishery, in that it was built around the unexpectedly high year class of 1999, when thats gone, unfortunately its back to scratching.

 

Cheers

 

 

Doc.

 

 

Sorry I forgot, apologies to all those who don't like reading about the state of fish stocks and conservation bullshit.

Edited October 12, 2006 by The doctor

[mr motorola]

But you keep telling us all that there is no cod crisis challenge.

 

Lets put this into perspective, you had to stop 2 months before the end of the official fishing year due to lack of quota left in the 1980's when the North Sea quota was 300,000 tonnes, and yes the fleets where larger then in comparrison to the present.

 

Now your saying that without the herring spawn cod fishery (which allegedly supports a third of income to local boats (which is not exactly the North Sea fishery as a whole)) they would never catch their quota, which for the North Sea in 2006 is 27,300 tonnes. Statistically that is more than an order of magnitude reduction from the 1980's in availability of cod, yes I appreciate that effort has reduced, but it hasn't reduced in line with the decline of cod stocks and available quota (66% reduction in fleet capacity (based on the Scottish white fish sector) in comparisson to a 1000% decrease in cod quota or 10 to the power of 3 (10/3).

 

What you are seeing onboard Cheiftan is selective Hotspot fishing (not excellent fisheries management as you choose to call it), and please before you and Mr Motorola get up on your defensive high horses I am not having a go at John. He provides an excellent service for his anglers, which is clearly what they want as they return to him on a monthly, seasonal & annual basis. I too have had some great long trips on Chieftan.

 

Yes it appears that 2005 was a reasonably good year for recruitment in terms of cod, but they are hardly going to set the world alight in terms of specimen fish for a good few years. Hitting your quota of 1-gp fish at the back of a good recruitment year is hardly a sign of good times ahead. this was the problem with the haddock fishery, in that it was built around the unexpectedly high year class of 1999, when thats gone, unfortunately its back to scratching.

 

Cheers

Doc.

Sorry I forgot, apologies to all those who don't like reading about the state of fish stocks and conservation bullshit.

great reply Doctor and thanks for great info

 

firstly ...how can you say that "what you are seeing onboard chieftain is selective hotspot fishing" ?

the boat covers an area (well he covers all of the north sea) so is the whole of the north sea a selective hotspot????

 

if so then everybody fishing the north sea for cod would be doing great!?!?

 

secondly ....if you have fished aboard the boat as you say you have, would you agree that the quality and quantity of fish ( in relation to 10-20 years ago) was as good as back then?

 

and last i don't mind reading all this "conservation bullshit" , but also don't mind reading about people actually catching fish and enjoying it! without being tarred with a brush that (as far as i'm concerned ) makes people ashamed to tell people what they have caught and enjoyed.

 

AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED , YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE AND ONCE YOU'RE DEAD THAT'S IT

when i get to the pearly gates and he asks me what is the most memorable thing i can remember ........ my family and all the great experiences i have of them and and also .......................

 

 

fishing and enjoying it will be one of the things i will tell him

 

 

what talking about conservation of fish is actually doing on this forum is actually putting people OFF coming on here!!! they're scared to register and get involved in their own adventures for sake of being victimized for killing fish

 

I DON'T WANT TO BE A MARTYR , ALL I WANT TO DO IS LIVE LIFE AND ENJOY IT TO THE FULL.

Edited October 12, 2006 by mr motorola

[Guest CJS2]

North Sea quota was 300,000 tonnes, and yes the fleets where larger then in comparrison to the present.

 

Now your saying that without the herring spawn cod fishery (which allegedly supports a third of income to local boats (which is not exactly the North Sea fishery as a whole)) they would never catch their quota, which for the North Sea in 2006 is 27,300 tonnes. Statistically that is more than an order of magnitude reduction from the 1980's in availability of cod, yes I appreciate that effort has reduced, but it hasn't reduced in line with the decline of cod stocks and available quota (66% reduction in fleet capacity (based on the Scottish white fish sector) in comparisson to a 1000% decrease in cod quota or 10 to the power of 3 (10/3).

 

Cheers

Doc.

Sorry I forgot, apologies to all those who don't like reading about the state of fish stocks and conservation bullshit.

 

As one who gets tired of 'conservation bullshit'. I accept the above figures are correct, why is no one in power doing something about it Thems' are hard facts, no mention of bass either, although, a proper closure would benefit all species, or am I and my simple mind being to simplistic. By the way Doc., its the Hyde Park soap box type waking on and on and . . . that get my goat, trouble is, they are right, its just the way its put over "we are allll doooom'd . . . allll dooooom'd . . . ."

 

Why cant we simply sit down, look at the figures that tell the true story and do something about it. Trouble is the answer is hard to bare in the short term. Bit like most political hot potatoes at the moment. A lot influential people have been doing a lot of fiddling whilst the fires burn, and of course, there is 'Brussels', wash my mouth out with soap There are going to be hard times around the corner as the birds come home to roost

 

Edited October 12, 2006 by CJS2

[The doctor]

firstly ...how can you say that "what you are seeing onboard chieftain is selective hotspot fishing" ?

the boat covers an area (well he covers all of the north sea) so is the whole of the north sea a selective hotspot????

 

if so then everybody fishing the north sea for cod would be doing great!?!?

 

 

Not so at all Carl, the point is the North Sea is not uniform, there are oases and barren areas as there has always been, its just that the oases (productive wrecks) are becoming fewer and far between, and those fish left are concentrating on the fewer 'hotspots'.

 

secondly ....if you have fished aboard the boat as you say you have, would you agree that the quality and quantity of fish ( in relation to 10-20 years ago) was as good as back then?

 

We have fished onboard the cheiftan on 60hr trips since 2002, this year was the first time we missed. I have to say (to my eternal shame), that I've now become a trophy fish hunter. I'm not bothered about filling the freezer, its the big fish I want and after 4 distance trips and 1 cod (to someone else) in the 20lb bracket the majority vote was that Norway offered the best prospects, hence the no booking this year. I agree the fishing is better now than it was 10 years ago, which is when I actually gave up wrecking for a while. But 20 years ago............... not a chance. From 1988 to 1995 I fished regularly out of Whitby (from 1990 with Stu Johnson on the old Sea Trek, I actually helped in part to refit her after the new Cummins were put in - nice to see the ss gunnel bands are still in place) and then later out of Brid with Ian Taylor on MY Charon. In those days we fished almost every other week, probably 50+ trips a year, we chartered Sea Trek for 5 days during the Whitby festival and in August Stuart used to have his busmans holiday (another 5 days of offshore wrecking - Graveyard, Olafs etc. on 'search and destroy missions'). The wife had 3 20lb (best 26lb) cod on her first ever fishing trip!!!!! and 4 or 5 just pushing the 20lb mark

 

I've done the 'jigging trips' on many occasion, 53 boxes between 5 anglers (18 boxes of cod over 20lb - 4 fish to a box), my best cod is 37lb and I had 3 other 30lbers the same day blah blah blah. The simple fact is that the fishing is not as good now as it was 15 years ago, you could get more in a 24hr Jigging trip with 4 or 5 good anglers within 30 miles of Whitby or Brid, than a 60 or 72 hr trip on chieftan now. Thats not Johns fault, its a fact of life, the fish are not there in the numbers or size that they used to be.

 

and last i don't mind reading all this "conservation bullshit" , but also don't mind reading about people actually catching fish and enjoying it! without being tarred with a brush that (as far as i'm concerned ) makes people ashamed to tell people what they have caught and enjoyed.

 

AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED , YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE AND ONCE YOU'RE DEAD THAT'S IT

 

The point is Carl that yes you are enjoying your fishing now, in the same way I did 15 - 20 years ago, will you be saying the same in 10 years time, and whats more important is........ Will your and my grandchildren have the same opportunity to do the same? I think not. My efforts now are based on ensuring that in 20 years time they can experience what we experienced a few years ago, to do anything less would be selfish and irresponsible.

 

The old saying is still as true today as when it was first spoken; We didn't inherit this earth and its resources, we are merely looking after it for our children and their children, what we bequeath them relates directly to our own consideration for their future well being.

 

Cheers

 

 

Doc.

[mr motorola]

Not so at all Carl, the point is the North Sea is not uniform, there are oases and barren areas as there has always been, its just that the oases (productive wrecks) are becoming fewer and far between, and those fish left are concentrating on the fewer 'hotspots'.

We have fished onboard the cheiftan on 60hr trips since 2002, this year was the first time we missed. I have to say (to my eternal shame), that I've now become a trophy fish hunter. I'm not bothered about filling the freezer, its the big fish I want and after 4 distance trips and 1 cod (to someone else) in the 20lb bracket the majority vote was that Norway offered the best prospects, hence the no booking this year. I agree the fishing is better now than it was 10 years ago, which is when I actually gave up wrecking for a while. But 20 years ago............... not a chance. From 1988 to 1995 I fished regularly out of Whitby (from 1990 with Stu Johnson on the old Sea Trek, I actually helped in part to refit her after the new Cummins were put in - nice to see the ss gunnel bands are still in place) and then later out of Brid with Ian Taylor on MY Charon. In those days we fished almost every other week, probably 50+ trips a year, we chartered Sea Trek for 5 days during the Whitby festival and in August Stuart used to have his busmans holiday (another 5 days of offshore wrecking - Graveyard, Olafs etc. on 'search and destroy missions'). The wife had 3 20lb (best 26lb) cod on her first ever fishing trip!!!!! and 4 or 5 just pushing the 20lb mark

 

I've done the 'jigging trips' on many occasion,

 

my best cod is 37lb and I had 3 other 30lbers the same day blah blah blah. The simple fact is that the fishing is not as good now as it was 15 years ago, you could get more in a 24hr Jigging trip with 4 or 5 good anglers within 30 miles of Whitby or Brid, than a 60 or 72 hr trip on chieftan now. Thats not Johns fault, its a fact of life, the fish are not there in the numbers or size that they used to be.

The point is Carl that yes you are enjoying your fishing now, in the same way I did 15 - 20 years ago, will you be saying the same in 10 years time, and whats more important is........ Will your and my grandchildren have the same opportunity to do the same? I think not. My efforts now are based on ensuring that in 20 years time they can experience what we experienced a few years ago, to do anything less would be selfish and irresponsible.

 

The old saying is still as true today as when it was first spoken; We didn't inherit this earth and its resources, we are merely looking after it for our children and their children, what we bequeath them relates directly to our own consideration for their future well being.

 

Cheers

Doc.

 

 

OK Doc , it certainly makes for good reading , but can i just clarify a couple of things with you first........

 

 

"53 boxes between 5 anglers (18 boxes of cod over 20lb - 4 fish to a box),"

what boat were you fishing on that carries 53 boxes????

 

 

yes i can well believe that a 24hr trip MIGHT beat a trip on chieftain (as the chieftain fishes roughly from 6/7 am to 5/6/7 pm) per day then the anglers go to bed

it might equate to about the same actually

 

yes aswell ... i've done the trips that you mention with stuart , i was on the phone to him last night for the best part of an hour , and yes , the same as you i've had some brilliant times from inside (probably my best being Millers Hump)

 

but above all i am NOT on here to promote a boat , i enjoy the sport of fishing and will always congratulate ANYONE for doing well.

 

who is to say that when you and i die and our children are grown up , they want to fish , something else might have taken their fancy???

 

START LIVING FOR YOURSELF

 

WHATEVER HAPPENS WILL HAPPEN (unless you've got some influence in parliament) or your name is BILL GATES then you have a very long road to travel

 

At the moment this government is too tied up in things that concern other more important agendas than others

 

ENJOY LIFE , YOU ONLY GET ONE.

 

i'm a simple man with simple needs

 

Live a Lot Worry not

[big_cod]

I heard that some of the whitby boats have gone to the prawns to make sure they still have a quota for that job and maintain a track record for prawns

 

As i understand it there will only be one boat left locally to fish on whitefish as some of the fleet have gone on oil standby jobs and some are fishing on nerdrops looks like the one boat left on whitefish is going to have a bannaza this week on the spawn fisherie.

[Guest challenge]

Not so at all Carl, the point is the North Sea is not uniform, there are oases and barren areas as there has always been, its just that the oases (productive wrecks) are becoming fewer and far between, and those fish left are concentrating on the fewer 'hotspots'.

We have fished onboard the cheiftan on 60hr trips since 2002, this year was the first time we missed. I have to say (to my eternal shame), that I've now become a trophy fish hunter. I'm not bothered about filling the freezer, its the big fish I want and after 4 distance trips and 1 cod (to someone else) in the 20lb bracket the majority vote was that Norway offered the best prospects, hence the no booking this year. I agree the fishing is better now than it was 10 years ago, which is when I actually gave up wrecking for a while. But 20 years ago............... not a chance. From 1988 to 1995 I fished regularly out of Whitby (from 1990 with Stu Johnson on the old Sea Trek, I actually helped in part to refit her after the new Cummins were put in - nice to see the ss gunnel bands are still in place) and then later out of Brid with Ian Taylor on MY Charon. In those days we fished almost every other week, probably 50+ trips a year, we chartered Sea Trek for 5 days during the Whitby festival and in August Stuart used to have his busmans holiday (another 5 days of offshore wrecking - Graveyard, Olafs etc. on 'search and destroy missions'). The wife had 3 20lb (best 26lb) cod on her first ever fishing trip!!!!! and 4 or 5 just pushing the 20lb mark

 

I've done the 'jigging trips' on many occasion, 53 boxes between 5 anglers (18 boxes of cod over 20lb - 4 fish to a box), my best cod is 37lb and I had 3 other 30lbers the same day blah blah blah. The simple fact is that the fishing is not as good now as it was 15 years ago, you could get more in a 24hr Jigging trip with 4 or 5 good anglers within 30 miles of Whitby or Brid, than a 60 or 72 hr trip on chieftan now. Thats not Johns fault, its a fact of life, the fish are not there in the numbers or size that they used to be.

The point is Carl that yes you are enjoying your fishing now, in the same way I did 15 - 20 years ago, will you be saying the same in 10 years time, and whats more important is........ Will your and my grandchildren have the same opportunity to do the same? I think not. My efforts now are based on ensuring that in 20 years time they can experience what we experienced a few years ago, to do anything less would be selfish and irresponsible.

 

The old saying is still as true today as when it was first spoken; We didn't inherit this earth and its resources, we are merely looking after it for our children and their children, what we bequeath them relates directly to our own consideration for their future well being.

 

Cheers

Doc.

Doc.

Please answer me this if you would, because it’s baffling me? If like you say our management of our fishery is not working. Why are all (and I am talking thousands here) our hot spots (as you and Leon like to call them) getting hotter year after year?

You say that the fishing today is better than it was 15 years ago. But not as good as it was twenty years ago, when you among others plundered the sea of it’s hotspots to such an extent (with no thought of management) that the few hotspots that you worked would never take that sort of angling concentration.

Fifteen years ago the hot spots where just starting to recover from angling and commercial saturation.

There is no more efficient way (when conditions are correct) of taking fish from a wreck than with a rod and line.

We always try our utmost to leave fish on a wreck if there is any there to start with.

When you where plundering them, did you ever think of doing the same?

Please don’t dismiss someone else’s management attempts when you can only guess as to there result.