Child poverty +

[gozzer]

Either way this topic is just so full of shite its unreal. Gozzers i wasnt singling you out but im sure ive seen you say similar to that in the past.

 

I'm sure you haven't Andy, unless I was being sarcastic again, and you missed it. I do use sarcasm, instead of insults, many don't like it, as I've been told, but it's my weapon of choice, and I prefer it to spouting a load of insults and/or threats, like some do.

Although I agree that the benefit system is often abused, I don't believe that is as often as some make out. If enough is made of those that do abuse the system, then it becomes the main cause of the problem to those naive enough to be swayed. (At the risk of invoking Godwins law), It's like Hitler blaming everything on the Jews. Thatcher blaming the unions for all the ills in the 80s. The Tories blaming the whole of the financial crisis on the New Labour Government, and Barry blaming Gordon Brown for all this countries problems. A concentrated, but blinkered viewpoint, that if repeated often enough becomes the truth, for some.

 

John.

[Steve Walker]

People like to reduce complex situations to simple narratives - like the current stories that Iceland didn't bail out its banks and jailed bankers and the implicit suggestion that we could have solved our problems the same way. Completely different scenario (they'd have gone to prison for what they did here or in the U.S. too) but it's a lot easier than understanding the complexity of what happened and the hard decisions which had to be made.

 

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

 

H. L. Mencken

 

We see a lot of abuse of statistics by people with an axe to grind - on the welfare system, that applies whether you read the Guardian or the Mail.

[Vagabond]

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

 

H. L. Mencken

 

We see a lot of abuse of statistics by people with an axe to grind - on the welfare system, that applies whether you read the Guardian or the Mail.

There are plenty of people grossly abusing our welfare system, but conversely, there are many people that are in dire need. Sometimes that need has arisen because of their own naivety, sometimes through no fault of their own, and sometimes through a misplaced pride in not being a "scrounger" . Sometimes these people have fallen foul of box-ticking officialdom, and are not getting relief to which they are entitled.

 

Not everyone has the ability to follow the advice of Norman Tebbitt "No job ? Then get on yer bike and find one". It is excellent advice, except for those that haven't got a bike, nor the ability to ride one. I never have been in the position of "no job" despite making a career change in my early forties, but would have been "on my bike" very smartly if I had been threatened with unemployment. But alas, job-hunting is a competitive activity, and there will always be the same group at the back of the queue - someone has to be last.

 

Norma does a once-a-week voluntary stint at the Citizens' Advice Bureau. It is a way of putting back something into a social system we have done fairly well from. Yes, I know Chesters has a low opinion of that organisation, but it is not really designed for street-wise people who are quite capable of taking on officialdom by themselves. It is there to advise people who do not know which way to turn. It is not there to solve problems, merely to advise people as to the options open to them. As a last resort, to supply them with a food-bank voucher so as to feed them for the immediate future. The number of such vouchers being issued here in the "affluent" SE England is really unacceptable.

 

I don't know what the answer is - it certainly is not political. I suspect it is that almost everybody in work is overpaid for what they do. Bankers most certainly are, but it extends down to all levels. There is no way that the average pen-pusher (or in these days keyboard pusher) and box ticker is productive enough to justify a lifestyle of two cars, holidays abroad, television, washing machine, dishwasher, double glazing etc etc. The gap between the "haves" and "have-nots" is thus wider than it should be, and the modern trend of continuing to uphold a lavish lifestyle via a credit card despite losing ones job has put many in dire straits.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Vagabond

[barry luxton]

What an idiot you are Barry you haven't a clue about people hard working people who struggle to make ends meet not everybody is on big wage some people. with families do there very best but it's ****ing idiots like you that slag hard working people that are struggling to make ends meet ****ing clueless .

s .

don't be a prat big cod that's a quote. all you can do is slag off the blues when a question is put to you with regards to what you consider is the way forward, it's over your head and ignored. Even your reds support benefit reduction, that one also went over your head.

 

Got anything constructive to put up. if you recon I'm an idiot, educate me, please do, brain box. it will be of course slag offs and nothing else, be creative and spoil yourself.

[barry luxton]

....................... and Barry blaming Gordon Brown for all this countries problems. A concentrated, but blinkered viewpoint, that if repeated often enough becomes the truth, for some.

 

John.

ha ha ha ha, the above can only be sarcastic because the reality is a wee bit more red than that. Gordon was only on the throne a mere short while to totally cock it up, blair came before him and sown the seeds, left brown to be the fall guy. Blair went onto the capitalist money making roundabout speeches circuit. Then the chief secretary announced, there's no tax payers money left, where did it all go I have to ask myself. History repeats it's self, jolly jim Callahan was the previous redite to cock it up. Problem I see is the red supporters have so short memory.

[chesters1]

 

There are plenty of people grossly abusing our welfare system, but conversely, there are many people that are in dire need. Sometimes that need has arisen because of their own naivety, sometimes through no fault of their own, and sometimes through a misplaced pride in not being a "scrounger" . Sometimes these people have fallen foul of box-ticking officialdom, and are not getting relief to which they are entitled.

 

Not everyone has the ability to follow the advice of Norman Tebbitt "No job ? Then get on yer bike and find one". It is excellent advice, except for those that haven't got a bike, nor the ability to ride one. I never have been in the position of "no job" despite making a career change in my early forties, but would have been "on my bike" very smartly if I had been threatened with unemployment. But alas, job-hunting is a competitive activity, and there will always be the same group at the back of the queue - someone has to be last.

 

Norma does a once-a-week voluntary stint at the Citizens' Advice Bureau. It is a way of putting back something into a social system we have done fairly well from. Yes, I know Chesters has a low opinion of that organisation, but it is not really designed for street-wise people who are quite capable of taking on officialdom by themselves. It is there to advise people who do not know which way to turn. It is not there to solve problems, merely to advise people as to the options open to them. As a last resort, to supply them with a food-bank voucher so as to feed them for the immediate future. The number of such vouchers being issued here in the "affluent" SE England is really unacceptable.

 

I don't know what the answer is - it certainly is not political. I suspect it is that almost everybody in work is overpaid for what they do. Bankers most certainly are, but it extends down to all levels. There is no way that the average pen-pusher (or in these days keyboard pusher) and box ticker is productive enough to justify a lifestyle of two cars, holidays abroad, television, washing machine, dishwasher, double glazing etc etc. The gap between the "haves" and "have-nots" is thus wider than it should be, and the modern trend of continuing to uphold a lavish lifestyle via a credit card despite losing ones job has put many in dire straits.

I dont have a problem with CAB and its intentions but once the "hard question" pops up good intention is of little use ,now i can only talk about farnham and a few years ago no one else ,but i found very quickly if the question isnt on here (good website but obviously for the easy questions)

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

 

Or "computer says" the interviewer quickly runs out of breath ,once that hard question is asked the person goes somewhere else and probably has a cup of tea or consults a superior then comes back with an answer thats usually wrong .

Now our immigrant friends seem to get real answers from their thousands of help centres and the disabled from theirs (excellent knowledgable one in folkestone for the disabled nothing round here) but perhaps the CAB is to genaralised to be of use other from day to day questions?

Perhaps a second tier where better trained comes above good intentions perhaps a well paid street wise individual thats come across the hard questions themselves and found the answers the hard way.

Unfortunately ours is staffed by well intentioned older folk but perhaps lived a life remote from the clients one ,those plums in mouth really dont help especially in cases we are right we are CAB so by logic you by being here must be wrong .

 

Now i am not saying they should disband they are vital where could you go for "ordinary" answers most ask but there needs to be a system where the few with answers not on the database can go .

 

The lady two doors away is well intentioned ,somewhere high in the lions group (a charidy something) in fact a lovely caring person but once you take her a fraction of an inch away from what she does she has not a clue about "life" ,unfortunately her life didnt go down as far as some so theres no experience of others so no clue to what they are up against ,she is also very gullible simply because she is nice ,her niceness is in abundance the type that feed the "homeless" and give them hand outs encouraging them to do nothing but look out for the gullible (an underclass big issue seller without shame)

 

Respect to your wife i hope all the answers are on the database but i myself wouldnt go to CAB once i had lolked at the web site because that is the CAB ,well meaning nice people but in a lot of things clueless and unhelpfull simply because the database is simple enough for well intentioned clueless people to use.

You wont get help from shelter or any other organisation either once the question isnt on the check list its simply there to answer the easy answers ,they must hate me hense i never ever saw the same person twice but i would never go if the answer was on the data base but it would be really really nice if at least there was someone available for the answers not on it ,just doling out vouchers for food or handing out a flier for another well intentioned group is not going to help some people and theres really nothing out there if your not foreign or its a disability question

Edited July 13, 2015 by chesters1

[gozzer]

ha ha ha ha, the above can only be sarcastic because the reality is a wee bit more red than that. Gordon was only on the throne a mere short while to totally cock it up, blair came before him and sown the seeds, left brown to be the fall guy. Blair went onto the capitalist money making roundabout speeches circuit. Then the chief secretary announced, there's no tax payers money left, where did it all go I have to ask myself. History repeats it's self, jolly jim Callahan was the previous redite to cock it up. Problem I see is the red supporters have so short memory.

 

Yes, but more poking fun than sarcasm. But you must admit that in your posts you seem blame Gordon Brown for most of todays problems, and Angling Trust for the rest! (or is it the other way round?)

 

John,

Edited July 13, 2015 by gozzer

[Vagabond]

Chesters, the clue is in the title

 

Citizens' Advice Bureau

 

The staff are there for people incapable of following a website - sometimes because they can't even afford a PC

 

As I said, it is not for the streetwise, it is there for those who are basically helpless in dealing with bureaucracy.

 

...and yes, it has its share of "twin set and pearls" staff, but I know one member, a shoemaker's daughter, who left school at 16, took a job in a chemical works, and now has a university career, a Fellowship in a Learned Society, and a published series of textbooks behind her, acts as Company Secretary to a building business in her spare time, has six children, ten grand-children, acts as a BTO recorder and can also fish a bit !

 

Ask a question that would keep a firm of lawyers in employment for eighteen months, and of course your volunteer won't have the answer at their finger tips. If it were me, I would tell you that I am here to help you ask the right question. If you already know that question, then I am here to advise you to ask it in the right place, which is not the CAB !

[Vagabond]

 

...blame Gordon Brown

 

Well, GB was not the only culprit, but he was Captain (or at least a hastily-promoted former First Mate) when the ship began to sink......

 

...and I thought that like Barry and myself you were a fully paid-up member of **MOAT ?

 

 

 

**MOAT = Mistrust Of Angling Trust .....and it also provides us with a metaphorical barrier against them.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Vagabond

[gozzer]

Well, GB was not the only culprit, but he was Captain (or at least a hastily-promoted former First Mate) when the ship began to sink......

 

...and I thought that like Barry and myself you were a fully paid-up member of **MOAT ?

 

 

 

**MOAT = Mistrust Of Angling Trust .....and it also provides us with a metaphorical barrier against them.

 

That's right GB was not the only culprit, if he had been I would have been very worried/surprised about the amount of influence he had on the world markets. But it's simpler to just point one finger, in one direction, especially when it suits your political leanings.

 

I don't trust ATr, but I wouldn't say that I disagreed with 100% of the things they stand for, 98% maybe, but not the full 100.

 

John.