Does the skipper catch his customer’s fish?

[corydoras]

How wrong can one man be?

 

Most people fish for pleasure, not food. It is, generally, far cheaper to buy fish than catch it.

 

If I ever feel the emotions that you express above, I promise you that I will give up angling.

 

Let's agree to disagree - we get different things from angling and that's what makes angling so good.

Snap Elton. I only fish for mullet these days. I really can't remember the last time that I eat a fish that I caught.

[JB]

I agree totally with you Paul. The tactics on how to catch fish can vary from day to day. A good skipper gets a feel for what is needed and will pass this information onto his anglers giving his anglers a better day.

Hi Ian,

I see your point and agree with it, especially with your set up, where you have a high ratio of skippers to anglers on your boats. Also, I understand that you put all your catch back in order for the anglers to be able to catch them again. This is very commendable, and may have to become the way of the future, but we are not that far advanced in Whitby yet; therefore our circumstances are quite different.

 

What my friend was pointing out was that the skippers in question were hogging the fishing at the expense of their customers. I believe one of your customers had a similar experience at Whitby, according to what you posted on page 14, post 266, in the topic Is it the end for charter skippers and fishing clubs? No time to bury your heads http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=63118&hl=whitby&st=260

â€A group of my regulars fished from Whitby 2 weeks ago and the skipper started swearing at them because they were putting fish back. His exact words were "I haven't brought you all the fxxxxxxg way out here for you to put fish back"

He was even insisting they kept the Codling at a pound weight. The Skipper ended up with two boxes of Cod and Ling which he presumerably sold illegally.

 

Ironically the skipper has lost a booking off these boys as they will not sail with him again.â€

 

Presumably the skipper was also fishing to fill up his two boxes?

 

Another point to bear in mind with this topic I have raised is a question I have frequently been asked, with regard to this basic scenario: You arrive at a wreck. On the first few drops, fish are coming to all anglers in abundance. However, on further drifts they become less frequent and finally stop altogether. An angler will ask, “Where’ve all the fish gone?†My answer is, of course, “They are all in your fish tubs.†The angler’s response is usually a look of disbelief, and the comment, “No, I can’t believe that!†The plain fact is that there is no longer an abundance of fish in the sea and angling does have some effect on stocks. Probably not as much as other methods of fishing, but nevertheless quite an effect on local frequently-fished marks. The number of fish to be caught on any given mark is limited; a finite amount. Therefore my friend’s point of view is that every fish the skipper catches and keeps for himself is one less for his paying customers to catch. None of this would be a problem if fish were as abundant as they were fifteen years ago, of course. I am sure that no angler would begrudge a skipper a fish supper for his family, but there is a definite difference between this and a skipper taking away two boxes of fish on a very regular basis.

 

JB

Edited May 14, 2007 by Newt

[JB]

Hi Ian,

I see your point and agree with it, especially with your set up, where you have a high ratio of skippers to anglers on your boats. Also, I understand that you put all your catch back in order for the anglers to be able to catch them again. This is very commendable, and may have to become the way of the future, but we are not that far advanced in Whitby yet; therefore our circumstances are quite different.

 

What my friend was pointing out was that the skippers in question were hogging the fishing at the expense of their customers. I believe one of your customers had a similar experience at Whitby, according to what you posted on page 14, post 266, in the topic Is it the end for charter skippers and fishing clubs? No time to bury your heads http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=63118&hl=whitby&st=260

Presumably the skipper was also fishing to fill up his two boxes?

 

Another point to bear in mind with this topic I have raised is a question I have frequently been asked, with regard to this basic scenario: You arrive at a wreck. On the first few drops, fish are coming to all anglers in abundance. However, on further drifts they become less frequent and finally stop altogether. An angler will ask, “Where've all the fish gone?†My answer is, of course, “They are all in your fish tubs.†The angler's response is usually a look of disbelief, and the comment, “No, I can't believe that!†The plain fact is that there is no longer an abundance of fish in the sea and angling does have some effect on stocks. Probably not as much as other methods of fishing, but nevertheless quite an effect on local frequently-fished marks. The number of fish to be caught on any given mark is limited; a finite amount. Therefore my friend's point of view is that every fish the skipper catches and keeps for himself is one less for his paying customers to catch. None of this would be a problem if fish were as abundant as they were fifteen years ago, of course. I am sure that no angler would begrudge a skipper a fish supper for his family, but there is a definite difference between this and a skipper taking away two boxes of fish on a very regular basis.

 

JB

 

 

Hi, Newt!

Michele again. I have just noticed that this post of John's has been edited by you. It now contains lots of †symbols where there were once speech marks. Could you please explain why you felt the necessity to edit John's post, and why all the †††††â€s now?

Kind regards,

Michele

 

Michele - I normally don't let the 'edited by' thing show if I did a minor one and all I did was edit http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=63118&hl=whitby&st=260: to remove the : at the end to make the link display normally. If I do any substantive editing I leave a note like this one (although I have not changed your post other than adding this to it). No idea what made the strange symbols appear and leaving the 'edited' line there was an oversight.

Newt

[Guest challenge]

This is an interesting thread, different opinions on what anglers (as customers) want and what skippers as providers (of customers) think they should get.

I love fishing as much as the next man. I have also fished since I was a young lad and hope to fish till I keel over.

I would of loved to of fished some of the places that John and Michele took me to when I was employed with them. There is nothing more frustrating to see anglers dragging fish in and you not having the chance to do so yourself.

In the four years that I worked as crewman on the chieftain, I could count the hours I fished (in total) on one hand and I will tell you why.

On a normal run of the mill 36 hour trip we would sail at 6pm and return 36 hours later at 6am. I would be down to the boat at 5pm to help with preparations for going to sea. Making sure anglers equipment was stowed helping with provisions coming on board etc and finally having the boat ready to cast off at 6pm. when john looked out the wheelhouse window at 6pm he would expect us to be ready for sea.

we would then steam for about 12 hours, in this time I would help anglers to find there accommodation and generally make sure they had all they needed, I would then have tea (prepared by Michele) and then have a chat with john about where we where going and the weather etc. I would usually take over from John at about 9pm for my steaming watch, then Michele would take the next watch about midnight and I would get to bed, I would be up at 5 30am to make sure we where ready to start fishing at 6am.

If the fishing was descent (witch it inevitably was) I would allow about 3 drifts over the wreck before I started on the fish. It would all have be gutted washed filleted and back in the chiller, in between this I would try and untangle lines and gaff fish.

Anyone who has sailed with us will tell you that once I started I never stopped.

I would get my breakfast literally on the run and lunch was the same. Michele was often seen coming on deck with cups of tea for me. In the mean time John would be re positioning the boat and also jumping out the wheelhouse and gaffing fish or untangling lines.

Wreck fishing when it is done properly (on behalf of the customer) doesn’t give you a chance to read newspapers never mind fish for yourself.

Most days by the time I had finished cleaning up and getting everything ready for the next day it would be 9 or 10 pm before I came off deck. That’s 16 hours spent looking after our customers, I would then get my dinner (again prepared by Michele) have a quick shower and then take my watch in the wheelhouse before I eventually got to bed about 1am.

It was all in a days work and I loved ever minute of it. But I would have loved to of fished all day instead. I am proud to be able to say that in my 4 years that I was with john and Michele I believe they never lost a customer because of something they found shortcoming from there crew.

I also learned a lot from the anglers that came with us, we might be decent anglers ourselves but I never stopped learning from different anglers from different fisheries.

I gave advice when ever I was asked, but more importantly I also listened and watched our customers.

I believe that some skippers can get away with fishing when they are fishing on ground or the fishing on the particular wreck is not very productive. Un-fortunately for my fishing fun this was very seldom the case.

 

Regards.

[spasor]

I dread the skipper getting his rod out. It usually means he`s about to show all us `anglers` how it`s done!!

[Norm B]

I dread the skipper getting his rod out. It usually means he`s about to show all us `anglers` how it`s done!!

Most skippers rods I've seen seem to consist of rings held on by tape and reels that look like they'll fall apart at the first sign of a decent fish, half filled with various coloured line with knots in it.

[mr motorola]

LOL Have a guess who is about the only skipper to fish at Whitby ?

 

Paul Fishes because its in his blood. Fished since he was a kid, probably still be fishing the day he keels over (hopefully not too soon). When you see Paul's enthusiasm it spurs you on.

Just to set the record straight on who is naming names Glenn

[JB]

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QUOTE(Norm B @ May 14 2007, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most skippers rods I've seen seem to consist of rings held on by tape and reels that look like they'll fall apart at the first sign of a decent fish, half filled with various coloured line with knots in it.

Hi Norm,

Your post brought back fond memories for me. I realise I am digressing from the topic I started, but I thought I’d share this memory with you.

 

Back in the late eighties, when cod stocks seemed to be inexhaustible and there was a great abundance of anglers coming to Whitby, I had a small boat named ‘Guide Me’. She was a coble with a wheelhouse and a small engine of 42 horsepower, giving her a maximum speed of six and a half knots. On the plus side, she was extremely economical to run. I was unable to burn five gallons of diesel, no matter how long a day I put in.

 

At that time, I had a commercial licence. I would fish long lines in the winter months, take anglers during the days in summer, and then do light duty, soft ground trawling on the sandy bottom on fine summer nights. I say ‘light duty’ because the boat had a low horsepower engine and we had to haul the net by hand. Nevertheless, we caught our share of Dover soles and it was a worthwhile exercise.

 

When we were taking anglers at that time, most days we would have a full twelve and it was a full-time job for me and my crewmember to look after them. But on the occasional day when we only had a few anglers on board, I looked after the customers’ needs while my crewman fished alongside them. We would land the fish he caught on the Whitby fish market, often landing in excess of two boxes of cod. It was a legal practice in those days. In fact it still is, if you have a commercial licence. The trouble nowadays is that DEFRA has imposed a quota which, if I am correct, only allows under-ten meter boats to land 50 kilos of cod per month. This is less than two boxes of cod per month.

 

So, coming to the point: My crewman of that time was quite a character. The only way to describe him is that he was Whitby’s version of ‘Crocodile Dundee’. And his fishing gear was… well, it had to be seen to be believed. Someone gave him an old solid glass rod. The few rings it had on it were held on by plastic tape. I gave him a worn-out Scarborough reel, which he fastened to the rod with two old rusty jubilee clips. The reel squeaked and rattled and to make it turn he had to dip it in the sea every time, before he dropped down. His main line was made up of any old line he had been given. I’m sure there was a knot at least every 12 to 15 feet, and his terminal tackle was no better than the rest of his gear. One day an angler accidentally stood on the end ring of the rod and broke it. He was unperturbed and just got a hacksaw and cut the end of the rod off, just before the next ring down.

 

But as for catching fish, he regularly out-fished every single person on the boat. Every time I looked up from my work, he was lifting another cod on board. And in those days, there was a good sample of large fish to be caught off Whitby.

 

Anyway, thank you for reawakening in me the memory of those halcyon stress-free days of plenty, and of one of the characters I had the pleasure of having as my crew man.

 

Regards,

John

[Fastd]

I have readthis as a facinating thread . I have fished quite regularly from whitby over the last year or so and the two skippers I have fished with have both fished every drift they have set us up on.

 

I had not given it a thought as to the fact that they are taking the paying customers potential fish using their experience and kowledge but that is my opinion.I can see the point that a more inexperienced boat angler could be expecting more help from the skipper in terms of tangles and landing fish. Perhaps its an indication of a skippers willingness to provide total customer satisfaction as to how they asses a particular days customers and the personal 1 to 1 help they offer. I have to say I can not complain over any trip I have taken last year or this as regards the service provided...I have left the boat on every occasion thinking the skipper has done what he can to catch me fish...what more can I ask.

 

I would also say that in the twenty or so trips last year I never saw a skipper have " a couple of boxes" for the back pocket. Perhaps this sums up how hard the fishing is or perhaps I just missed every good trip that was to be had . I have been there on the day when a skipper came in early to have time to fillet fish but I have to say this is regretably an execption rather than a rule. I believe the pics were posted here and removed for whatever reasons the mods saw necessary. Personally as a NE angler I saw it as a skipper saying at last we caught something close to what we expect every day and hopefully we will in the future.

 

Cheers

Dave

[Guest challenge]

Edited at request of third party.

 

I will just say that I think Elton hit the nail on the head and its quite clear what is happening here - over and over again. Quite why its been allowed to go on for so long is beyond me, the topic is of no use to any real angler. But its Elton's Forum and he controls what happens.

I agree with you glen about what Elton said “that anybody who thinks that a skippers job is to just steer the boat has lost the whole point of the brotherhood of the angler” what I believe is trying to be debated here is what they do when they are not steering the boat?

If you think that customers (or real anglers as you put it) have no interest in that whatsoever then I beg to differ.

I am sure a paying customer (regardless as to weather you think they are a real angler or not) wants to know just what he is getting for his money.

As I stated in my post, I would of loved to have been able to of fished all day long on some of the more productive wrecks that we fished when I was with the chieftain, but in my opinion it would not of been faire on John and Michele and more importantly, it would not of been faire on our customers.

I personally could not stand there fishing while a paying customer struggled with a tangle or in landing a fish. I also had a lot of pride in the service that I gave to my customers and I certainly never let my own wants stand in my way of that.

The enjoyment I got from saying goodbye at the end of a trip to very grateful customers certainly outstripped any pleasure I would have got from catching fish all day.

You might find that hard to believe glen? But that’s the way it was with us all on the chieftain. Now if other skippers and crews do it differently then so be it. That’s the way that I worked, I am not saying that all genuine anglers would not appreciate how we did things, but I am yet to meet one who didn’t.

Regards.