Homeopathy

[corydoras]

I havent got a clue!!!!

 

He seemed a straight as a die to me but I dont see what that has to do with my BacK injury!

 

Joking aside I attended his clinic on recomendation from my JuJitsu instructer The Chap I saw was allso a martial arts instructer Goja ru Karate to be precise, The qualification he had, allowed him to advertise him self as a Docter of Chiropractic. He exrayed me at his clinic he explained to me what I was looking at on the films once they had been developed,He allso explained to be that there were Limitations as to how much he could help depending on what he saw on the exray films I was re exrayed after the course of treatment and the difference was quite noticeable on comparison. Also my range of movement and flexibillity increased Noticeably after the treatment and the pain subsiding this improved my martial arts to a degree,

 

I know plenty of poeple who have benifitted from complementry theropies/I also no plenty of poeple Who claim to have seen Ghosts, so I know where you are coming from cory I just think making a blanket statement that they are qaucks is a bit arbitary I worked for me so I cant agree with your statement If it didnt I wouldnt of its as simple as that.....

FB

The reason that is asked whether your Chiropractor was a 'straight' or a 'mixer' was not to query out about his sexual inclinations but to try to ascertain which 'school' of chiropractics he practised. Chiropractors fall into two main schools, straights and mixers. Wikipedia have a good article on Chiropractic.

 

I am not asking you or anyone else to beleive ME. If I am asking anything it is that you go and research for yourself what these people beleive.

[corydoras]

I have been reading this thread with interest, and last night I was discussing it with my daughter.

She is about to start her final year at uni' studying Radiotherapy and Oncology. She has to spend a lot of her year on placement in the Radiotherapy units at a couple of hospitals. This subject has arisen, during lessons and while on placement.

They use several complementary therapies, (not alternative as some would call them) along side conventional treatments.

They, who work at the sharp end of the business, have found that a patients state of mind effects, how well they take to treatment, and if any complementary treatment improves that thinking then, if they can, they will use it.

This is of course cancer based treatment, and the traumatic effects it can have on the patients thinking are huge. The use of Aromatherapy, Reflexology and even what they call "Paint Therapy", (where a patient is encouraged to express their feelings through a painting), all help them to either relax, understand, or accept their condition, and thus move on with the treatment.

 

These are far removed from homeopathy I know, but there seems to be a grouping, and debunking of all treatments that are not based on scientific research, in this thread.

 

I do know if I, (or a loved one) was suffering from a life threatening condition, I have enough of an open mind to try almost anything if I thought it would help. (I suspect that most on here would feel the same way).

 

John.

If I were diagnosed with a life threatening disease I would like to think that I would still have the clarity of mind to accept that no amount of attar of roses, having a vibrator shoved against the soles of my feet or art classes were going to help.

[gozzer]

If I were diagnosed with a life threatening disease I would like to think that I would still have the clarity of mind to accept that no amount of attar of roses, having a vibrator shoved against the soles of my feet or art classes were going to help.

 

We would all like to think that we could think clearly in a situation like this cory, but they have found that many do not.

The thought that they have something 'eating' away inside them. The thought that they will never see their family or loved ones again. The thought that the one's they love have to continue without them, and many other thoughts and fears. All these combine to make clarity of thought difficult.

Whether it's been proven or not scientifically, or you just don't believe it, the mind set of a person can help or hinder treatment. And no, I have no scientific studies to point to, just the experience of seeing friends and family go through treatment, sometimes successfully, sometimes not.

How they have accepted their illness, and coped with it, has made the situation better, or worst, for them, and those close to them.

The staff at the hospital, recognise this and use the 'complementry' therapies to help the situation.

 

You seem to base all your opinions on proven science.

Surely no science is 'absolute', discoveries are made daily, and todays 'scientific fact' can be tomorrows 'myth and magic', as the 'scientific facts' of 'yesteryear' are regarded today.

 

John.

[Ken L]

If I were diagnosed with a life threatening disease I would like to think that I would still have the clarity of mind to accept that no amount of attar of roses, having a vibrator shoved against the soles of my feet or art classes were going to help.

 

Well said !

 

When my Grandfather was diagnosed with prostrate cancer, the social networking and councilling that was available through the day hospice that he attanded helped him immesurably with living with the disease, and when he subsequently developed the cancer of the osoephaghus and bowel that killed him, he already had a suport network in place in addition to that provided by the family.

 

He was well educated and sharp as they come right upto the end, despite living to just shy of his ninety second birthday.

Much as he appreciated the social networking and councilling, the basket weaving, painting (Art therapy), aromatherapy, reflexology and other BS left him feeling that his intelegence was being insulted and ashamed because he felt that he couldn't say no and snub them after they had provided some genuinly helpful care.

 

For some people, this cr@p IS harmfull ! My grandfathers last couple of years would have been just a little more dignified without the "benefit" of so called complimentary medicine.

[gozzer]

How can you compare a 92 year old man, who has lived well passed the average life expectancy, to a young, (maybe not so well educated) person who is just starting out in life. Maybe a young married person, a young parent or in one case the 17 year old lad that had his future plans of attending the same uni' as my daughter, shattered. My daughter was in attendance when he was told the prognosis, (not a pleasant experience).

 

You seem to assume that everyone acts and reacts the same, and those that need extra help are somehow, intellectually inferior to those that don't.

It's never been said on here that complementary therapy suits everyone, but in some cases it can, and does help.

 

John.

Edited September 1, 2007 by gozzer

[Ken L]

How can you compare a 92 year old man, who has lived well passed the average life expectancy, to a young, (maybe not so well educated) person who is just starting out in life. Maybe a young married person, a young parent or in one case the 17 year old lad that had his future plans of attending the same uni' as my daughter

 

My grandfather was simply an example Gozzer, I didn't compare him to anyone.

 

It's never been said on here that complementary therapy suits everyone, but in some cases it can, and does help.

 

Define "help".

 

I, like many folks on here have known people who have been diagnosed with terminal cancer at an appallingly young age and heared them say that their doctor had told them that relaxation, detoxification and positive thinking would prolong their life (They don't !) or even allow them to achieve a cure. Now I don't know whether the "Doctor" my friend was refering to was a qualified doctor or some sort of complimentary quack but I do know that she spent a great deal of money of this so called treatment and even spent precious time away from her family in a retreat.

Predictably, the disease ran it's course and she died having spent less time with her family than she might have and leaving less of an inheritance to her children than she might have.

 

I accept that these things may make a proprtion of the population have a marginally better quality of life from a psychological standpoint but my point was that those effects certanly can not be relied upon to work for all or even most people and that far from helping, engaging with these practices can have significant negative consequences.

 

Religious faith and the certain knowledge that people are going to go on to an afterlife after their death might also improve their quality of life in their last days but this sort of wishfull thinking doesn't make god or heaven true either.

 

Edit: I'm not quite sure what your proposal is but it alsost sounds like "He's a bit think, best send for the homeopath and the crystal healer, and call the priest in while you're at it".

Edited September 1, 2007 by Ken L

[corydoras]

OK, you've convinced me.

 

No, you haven't convinced me that this stuff works, just that I should do the courses, jack in my job and make a fine living by taking money from the credulus.

I've often thought of this myself Ken, maybe we should form a partnership?

[nursejudy]

What a thought provoking thread, I have had acupuncture several times for a back problem,when it re occurs i have no hesitation in going to the physiotherapist for acupuncture I can only speak as i have found ...that i get relief and comfort and have to take fewer painkillers.

 

Found this which may be of interest Breast Cancer

[corydoras]

Cory, shame on you!

 

Your arguement consists of selectively posting an example of one trial that showed a negative result!

 

I asked why do some double blind trials show negative results, some positive? I won't bother to post an example from those on Google showing positive results. Instead I'll leave you and others to read them.

 

It's poor science to say the results of experiments can't be right because they don't fit in with known theories or "it's impossible". The history of science is littered with such utterances where the scientific method that Steve Walker referred to earlier isn't followed.

 

Either the accepted theory is wrong or the results of the experiments are wrong. It's unscientific to simply reject all the experimental evidence that doesn't accord with your own viewpoint!

 

You then repeat your assertion about dilution. As I also said, science may have missed something here.

 

To paraphrase Arthur C. Clarke: "New ideas pass through three periods: 1) It's impossible. 2) It may be possible 3) I knew it was so all along!"

 

I repeat - the evidence is contradictory. I thus have an open mind on the subject.

 

Do you?

Read this article Steve, do you have an open mind to the concept of 'Downloadable Medication'.

 

Downloadable Medication - The Final Straw

 

In 1988, a French homeopathist by the name of Jacques Benveniste published an article in the prestigious science journal Nature claiming that an antibody solution continued to evoke a biological response even when it had been diluted to 30x or beyond. This evoked an outburst in the scientific community. Many scientists were outraged and felt that the editor of Nature had taken leave of his judgement8.

 

What probably enraged the scientists, was Benveniste's claim that although the antibody concentration had been reduced to zero, that it had nevertheless left an imprint of some sort on the solvent. Of course, the final straw was when Benveniste later made the claim that the information is 'stored' in the water in the form of 'electromagnetic waves' which could then be picked up by a coil surrounding the water, and subsequently stored in a computer - and could even be transmitted over the Internet to activate water anywhere half a world away. Downloadable medicine! The local pharmacy would go out of business in no time.

 

No doubt I should happily pay for this charlatans quackery from my tax too?

[corydoras]

What a thought provoking thread, I have had acupuncture several times for a back problem,when it re occurs i have no hesitation in going to the physiotherapist for acupuncture I can only speak as i have found ...that i get relief and comfort and have to take fewer painkillers.

 

Found this which may be of interest Breast Cancer

Hypnotherapy and MIGHT have something going for them I concede that of all the 'alternative therapies' I am less skeptical of those two.

 

Practitioners like this scare me http://www.drday.com and advocating this is just irresponsible.