Pub landlord gives 2 fingers to the smoking ban

[Wordbender]

Ta daaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

A concession is obviously good for the soul.

 

Don't fret, you were on a loser from the start.

[mr motorola]

A concession is obviously good for the soul.

 

Don't fret, you were on a loser from the start.

Listen mr wordbender , i'm not one to get into personal 'tittle-tattles' * , but smoking and the smoking ban is a subject that cuts pretty deep for me , as it obviously does for you.

Look at it from the smokers perspective for a change.

 

Mr Joe Public has been smoking 20 fags a day for 30 years , pumping between £1.00 and £4.00 over the years every day into the treasury funds. Yes , smoking isn't good for you I HOLD MY HANDS UP AND ADMIT IT , but where would this country be without the 10s-100's of billions of pounds generated by smoking over the decades? Then Mr joe public is not only told that he can't go down to the pub and buy alcohol (pumping even more money into the treasury) and enjoy a smoke with it. He has to leave his pint on the table and nip outside in (over the last 12 months) some utterly atrocious weather, with the chance of someone 'spiking' his drink. Yes , it's another knock-on effect that is no being featured by our local news , at least.

 

Time will tell was one of my little finishes yesterday....................well what about this little idea.....

 

A general election will be not toooo far in the distant future , it will come. What if Mr Cameron has the notion of lifting the smoking ban as a sway in votes?? Sounds ridiculous?? It could be the biggest tool EVER used in an election campaign. And he's got my vote all the way.

I was brought up in a mining community that was utterly destroyed by the conservatives (thatcher) and i swore that i would vote on the monster raving looney party before voting conservative , but if cameron gets his stuff together then Alan 'howlin laud' Hope will have to wait a few years more for my vote.

 

 

 

*anyone who knows mr motorola will know that i'm lying.

[snakey1]

Bender.......... (we can all abbr /shorten ) NO you cannot assume that i am in favour of all drugs. I'm not streetwise with names of the hard drugs hitting our streets or the desired affects of them. What i AM familiar with is the terrible addiction that they create and the want / need to feed it with money from whatever means is neccessary

 

Funny that mr m considering nicotine is regarded to be a highly addictive drug (try reading this paper, section 4 about addiction and dependence and also section 6 on the health risks of smoking, specifically section 6.5 on the health risks of passive smoking may be of interest nicotine addiction)and also one of the most poisonous it has an LD50 of about 40-60mg/kg in humans. perhaps the reason hard drug addicts have to rob and steal to get their fix is because of the extortionate amount a drug dealer charges, perhaps if smokers had to pay similar prices because they were forced to buy their cigarettes from criminals they would be forced into similar habits to feed their addiction(imagine having to pay £15.00 for a cigarette, not a pack but just one cigarette).to be honest there but for the grace of god go most smokers.

As for praising pubs that openly flout the law on smoking would you be as generous with your praise of said pubs if they encouraged their patrons to drink and drive another potentially harmful (to yourself and others)pastime.

Oh and by the way my name isn't bender he's a robot out of the cartoon futurama.

Edited January 22, 2008 by snakey1

[*Ant*]

Hey up, I don't like that!.........lets outlaw it even though millions of people enjoy it.

[kleinboet]

Firstly - a couple of answers:

Wordbender - "The Commission recognises, however, that many who work on the estate are unavoidably present for long periods, particularly when the House is sitting.It is therefore desirable to make reasonable provision for those who wish to smoke to do so, provided that the health and safety of other users of the estate is not adversely affected.

Your posting, not mine!

 

KenL - I already addressed that query My answer was : Simple, send a smoker!

 

We are constantly being bombarded on this thread that smoking will kill YOU

Will it? While I am not denying the fact that smoking has caused deaths, not everybody is affected!

What about the 80/90/100 year olds that have smoked since they were 12 or 13? If it kills YOU and not a percentage, why are these people still alive?

 

Brendas Grand-parents (both Maternal and Paternal) are an example three died in their ninetie's, all heavy smokers. The other one, who was a non-smoker and would not enter a house where people smoked (and sent his wife outside the house to smoke) died in his sixties!!

[mr motorola]

As for praising pubs that openly flout the law on smoking would you be as generous with your praise of said pubs if they encouraged their patrons to drink and drive another potentially harmful (to yourself and others)pastime.

That would be your statement snakey1 and no others. Smoking gives a 'kick' if you like , it dosen't debilitate you to the state of madness or crazed hysteria which hard drugs do , neither does it give you 'over confidence' / 'dutch courage' which alcohol does ; which in turn would lean you into grabbing the keys of a car and driving it. Alcohol and hard drugs can be very explosive to the user when abused or in some cases the hardened drinker / injector may become more prone to the use and feel that he hasn't had too much which would give them the reason to take even more , which would inevitably end in tragedy for him or his victim.

These type of scenarios are in most cases , split second events. Smoking , as i've already stated isn't healthy for you , but you have the choice of whether to breathe it or not , whereas a crazed / shot-up druggie wanting some money for his next fix who spots you as an easy target would / could be far more harmful to yourself. The same for alcohol with a drunken kid fancying his chances.....

[Wordbender]

Firstly - a couple of answers:

 

1. Wordbender - "The Commission recognises, however, that many who work on the estate are unavoidably present for long periods, particularly when the House is sitting.It is therefore desirable to make reasonable provision for those who wish to smoke to do so, provided that the health and safety of other users of the estate is not adversely affected.

Your posting, not mine!

 

2. We are constantly being bombarded on this thread that smoking will kill YOU

Will it? While I am not denying the fact that smoking has caused deaths, not everybody is affected!

What about the 80/90/100 year olds that have smoked since they were 12 or 13? If it kills YOU and not a percentage, why are these people still alive?

 

1. Kleinboet - you've rather shot yourself in the foot with this one. The 'reasonable provision for those that wish to smoke' is the same as that provided for smokers in pubs. i.e. locations not connected to public areas - smoking shelters if you will.

 

2. First, nobody who knows about smoking states that it WILL kill you. You turned that one around to make a point. What's said, and with absolute validity, is that smoking kills a proportion of those that smoke. You've also said before that 'not everybody is affected', when what you really mean is 'not everybody is killed'. Again, as I've said before, everybody who smokes IS affected to some degree or other, but some are affected more than others. The fact is, in addition to the 120,000 smoking related deaths in the UK every year, there are many more times that number adversely affected by smoking.

 

Tragic but absolutely true.

 

Regards.

[kleinboet]

I know that that is the law as it stands, but it has been "refined" in pubs etc. to mean an area with a roof only! No walls, just supports (in other words a car port!) as the smoke MUST dissipate. I know of pubs that have been forbidden to put a very strong extractor fan into a room to allow smokers a little comfort in icy, wet conditions. These have been ALL been refused!

I believe that at the houses of parliament, this is not the case. Security of members is given as a reason!

 

Wordbender - If you want to start bandying figures about, what is that in a percentage of ALL deaths in a year? What is that in a percentage of all unnatural deaths in a year? How many people are killed in transport accidents in a year. That should give you a clearer picture of the dangers of smoking against the dangers of living in 2008!

 

Another point is what, in a percentage of total deaths, is the percentage of deaths by 'passive smoking'?

 

Your remarks as to the affection by smoking is guesswork! There is so much polution in the air today! What about the smoke you inhale when holding a barbeque, have a coal/wood fire in the house. What about house fires (where people are taken to hospital with smoke inhalation)? There are emissions from vehicles (get stuck in a traffic jam!) There are numerous major poluton contributors to polution, which, in turn CAN (and usually is) be attributed to smoking.

 

People must think a situation through before blaming that situation completely on to one reason.

Oh, I admit that there are deaths from smoking, but what about the other 'unnatural' deaths?

[snakey1]

That would be your statement snakey1 and no others. Smoking gives a 'kick' if you like , it dosen't debilitate you to the state of madness or crazed hysteria which hard drugs do , neither does it give you 'over confidence' / 'dutch courage' which alcohol does ; which in turn would lean you into grabbing the keys of a car and driving it. Alcohol and hard drugs can be very explosive to the user when abused or in some cases the hardened drinker / injector may become more prone to the use and feel that he hasn't had too much which would give them the reason to take even more , which would inevitably end in tragedy for him or his victim.

These type of scenarios are in most cases , split second events. Smoking , as i've already stated isn't healthy for you , but you have the choice of whether to breathe it or not , whereas a crazed / shot-up druggie wanting some money for his next fix who spots you as an easy target would / could be far more harmful to yourself. The same for alcohol with a drunken kid fancying his chances.....

my statement about you praising pubs that flout the law has nothing to do with the effects hard drugs or alcohol have or even tobacco has on you more the fact you seem to be quite happy encouraging publicans to openly break the law, and i wondered how far this disregard for the law and the justice system went. In a similar vein one of the publicans by me used to quite happily flout the law and serve a 16 year old kid until the day he stole a car and wrapped it around a speed camera(luckily only killing himself & no-one else in the process) i just wondered if that publicans flouting of the law would still have been fine (and openly encouraged)with/by you(as by encouraging publicans to break the law you obviously don't give a toss if they lose their livelihoods because they then lose their licences for doing so).

As for smoking not debiltating you if your so desperate for a cigarette you can't walk a few yards to stand outside or if the weathers really crap wait till you get into the comfort of your own house then i'm afraid your deluding yourself, ive seen the state of some smokers after they've been deprived of the ability to smoke few a few hours say on a flight abroad and they've been crawling up the walls desperate for a fag.

Edited January 23, 2008 by snakey1

[snakey1]

I know that that is the law as it stands, but it has been "refined" in pubs etc. to mean an area with a roof only! No walls, just supports (in other words a car port!) as the smoke MUST dissipate. I know of pubs that have been forbidden to put a very strong extractor fan into a room to allow smokers a little comfort in icy, wet conditions. These have been ALL been refused!

I believe that at the houses of parliament, this is not the case. Security of members is given as a reason!

 

Wordbender - If you want to start bandying figures about, what is that in a percentage of ALL deaths in a year? What is that in a percentage of all unnatural deaths in a year? How many people are killed in transport accidents in a year. That should give you a clearer picture of the dangers of smoking against the dangers of living in 2008!

 

Another point is what, in a percentage of total deaths, is the percentage of deaths by 'passive smoking'?

 

Your remarks as to the affection by smoking is guesswork! There is so much polution in the air today! What about the smoke you inhale when holding a barbeque, have a coal/wood fire in the house. What about house fires (where people are taken to hospital with smoke inhalation)? There are emissions from vehicles (get stuck in a traffic jam!) There are numerous major poluton contributors to polution, which, in turn CAN (and usually is) be attributed to smoking.

 

People must think a situation through before blaming that situation completely on to one reason.

Oh, I admit that there are deaths from smoking, but what about the other 'unnatural' deaths?

Just a couple of points 1. the law states that a smoking shelter must be less than 50% enclosed not that it cannot have any walls just supports

2. most wood/coal fires don't contain nicotine(a highly toxic and addictive chemical) or the approx 4000 other added chemicals that cigarettes do.

3. if your interested in figure for the effects of passing smoking i suggest you follow the link in one of my previous posts and read the paper there written it makes interesting reading.

Edited January 23, 2008 by snakey1