Live-baiting is cruel and barbaric

[kleinboet]

Let me start by saying there is ONE main law in the whole animal kingdom: KILL OR BE KILLED and before you start on about herbivores, they kill as well, ants, worms etc.

Why do they put Pike or Perch in still waters? For those of you who think otherwise, they are in the water to do what they do in nature, kill any fish that they can catch, which is why that in any lake they are stocked, the other fish are very healthy indeed, as they need to be quick to evade the predator. So we put a hook in a fish and nature takes its course and you have a "specimen"!

We put hooks in ALL fish, so what's the problem?

Edited January 16, 2008 by kleinboet

[BoozleBear]

My two pence-worth.

 

Some people go with livebaiting, some people don't.

 

I for instance don't livebait, but that's more out of squeemishness than anything else. I agree totally that if you put a hook through any living creature, maggott, worm, slug, roach, it amounts to the same thing. I agree also with the origin-of-deadbait comment is a worthwhile one.

 

I may be seen as a hypocrite, but like I said I don't disagree with livebaiting, but would rather not do it myself given the choice.

 

The problem with this issue is people are (rightly) passionate about it.

 

However, TT, if you title a thread with something that is going to upset people and put their backs up, you're going to be lucky to generate a decent debate.

 

Calling something people enjoy doing and believe in 'barbaric' is not going to do anything but start you off on the wrong foot.

 

This seems to have settled into a decent debate now, which is lucky. I think a few posters managed to chuck a bit of water on the fire, which was handy!

 

Cheers,

 

Simon

Edited January 16, 2008 by BoozleBear

[Grandma]

TT,

 

You'd have to ban dead baiting too on those grounds, as someone alluded to earlier in the thread, blast frozen baits are not usually humanely killed. It's just that someone else does the nasty bit for you and you benefit from the convenience of a neatly packaged product and a clear conscience. Very much like buying meat from a super market.

 

If you don't want to use live bait, then don't, but beware of hypocrisy when imposing your views on other people.

[Codger]

I have one question for the original poster, have you ever foul hooked a fish? Did you feel so guilty about having hooked the said fish in the fin or back? If the answer is yes, maybe you should, as has been said before sell you rods. This sport might not be for you.

 

Paul.

 

Paul....are you seriously suggesting it is WRONG to feel guilty about foul hooking a fish...I certainly have, it is never my intent to foul hook so when I do, I feel very sorry and yes a bit guilty about it !!!However, back to the thread!!!

IMO Live baiting is up to the conscience of the individual....

It takes all sorts to make our sport what it is...I personally can think of little more tedious than sitting behind a pole the length of a cricket pitch in furious competition with the people either side of me... BUT that is their prerogative, as is live baiting ...or being like me, a fairly inept angler who is content to sit by the water now and again, daydreaming and catching the occasional gullible fish!!!!!!

Happy days!!!!!

[chesters1]

looks like time for my pike kits pic again ,bugger what did i call it back then

but going back to the post title is he having a go at Newt

 

Live-baiting is cruel and barbaric, We – us anglers - should stop live-baiting now.

 

i'l sit with Den in his fox hole ,Why ,why not he may get to like me and leave me his experience or money or stuff

as to whether livebaiting is cruel i'l leave that up to those either side of the fence ,myself ? i have ,i don't now ,but may in the future thus sitting on the fence untill i fall either way as i die

 

as to being barbaric not a hope your barbaric to humans not potential food well down the scale of things

Edited January 16, 2008 by chesters1

[Guest Rabbit]

Sorry to disappoint you rabbit but the only posts on this thread that will be censored are any that devolve into nasty personal attacks on other people for their views.

 

Nice to see you are setting the standard Newt ...keep up the good work

[pikergonecarpin]

Paul....are you seriously suggesting it is WRONG to feel guilty about foul hooking a fish...I certainly have, it is never my intent to foul hook so when I do, I feel very sorry and yes a bit guilty about it !!!However, back to the thread!!!

IMO Live baiting is up to the conscience of the individual....

It takes all sorts to make our sport what it is...I personally can think of little more tedious than sitting behind a pole the length of a cricket pitch in furious competition with the people either side of me... BUT that is their prerogative, as is live baiting ...or being like me, a fairly inept angler who is content to sit by the water now and again, daydreaming and catching the occasional gullible fish!!!!!!

Happy days!!!!!

 

Sorry Codger you misunderstand me (Probably my way with words )

 

What i'm trying to say is, that if your not happy that you might foul hook, damage, or even kill fish accidentally (however unlikely) whilst in pursuit of fish, then maybe angling isn't a good choice of sport. Is there any difference between setting out to do it deliberately and doing it accidentally?

 

Either way fish end up with hooks in them (Hopefully in their mouths though)

 

I hope i've explained it better, i'm not stating this as fact its just my opinion of course

 

Just a question, does this debate often rage in the sea angling forum? Do they have qualms about using live sandeels to catch bass etc?

[Guest Rabbit]

Let me start by saying there is ONE main law in the whole animal kingdom: KILL OR BE KILLED and before you start on about herbivores, they kill as well, ants, worms etc.

Why do they put Pike or Perch in still waters? For those of you who think otherwise, they are in the water to do what they do in nature, kill any fish that they can catch, which is why that in any lake they are stocked, the other fish are very healthy indeed, as they need to be quick to evade the predator. So we put a hook in a fish and nature takes its course and you have a "specimen"!

We put hooks in ALL fish, so what's the problem?

Problem? could be in that I practise catch and release, that is I remove the hook from the lip and return fish to water alive. Dont you?

The kiIl or be killed quote whats that all about? Are you saying that through livebaiting we are merely acting out a instinct of survival. Surely not......and just WHO puts or stocks perch into stillwaters for the pike to eat? Thats a new one on me

[Guest Rabbit]

Sorry to disappoint you rabbit but the only posts on this thread that will be censored are any that devolve into nasty personal attacks on other people for their views.

 

Tiddlertamer - the fuzzy logic I spoke of was you talking about how bad it is to stick a hook in a bait fish while continuing to stick hooks in fish to catch them and making no mention of why hooking a fish for bait is bad but hooking a worm or insect is OK. Those views (hook this one, OK; hook that one, bad) always struck me as being illogical. That is where the anti-live-baiting arguments always seem (to me anyway) to break down.

 

The authorities you quoted wrote a more balanced view of the topic. That is not say they are incapable of making dumb statements because we all are and they may have at some point but the quotes used here make sense. They simply don't support your premise as well as you seem to think.

 

Last point - from your title, "Live-baiting is cruel and barbaric" is an opinion expressed as if it were an unarguable fact. That sort of thing is normally intended to start a fight rather than a discussion.

I assume you would have a different reply ready if you actually agreed that live baiting was cruel. Your remark about fuzzy logic just does not stand up, to catch a fish with a hook ant to remove the hook and return the fish alive is a fair distance away from impaling a fish on a treble or single hook that will ensure a slow death. not so fuzzy when you think about it..

[Dave Lumb]

I am calling for no action other that each individual examines the issue for him/her self.

 

I've examined the issue for myself. Livebaiting's okay by me. Thanks for asking.