Live-baiting is cruel and barbaric

[Anderoo]

This topic should really be renamed to 'Can you think of an irrelevant and misleading comparison?'

 

I think we all can.

 

[kleinboet]

What's wrong Rabbit? You were rampantly posting answers to my postings, you claim to be the voice of "reason" - well I don't hear "voices"!

 

Anyone who is not a VEGAN, is responsible for the deaths of animals!(even breaking an egg for breakfast is killing the embryo of the chick) and some "vegetarians" even eat fish!

 

People who keep exotic animals and reptiles are also responsible for the deaths of innocent animals.

(meal worms, mice -dead or alive - , worms etc).

This is not news, this is just a fact of life, so why keep picking on the angler? Do you want to ban all baits not derived from animal products. I can think of only one - sweetcorn! But - then think of thes big farm machines destroying the lives of field mice etc.

 

How ridiculous do we have to get?

[Anderoo]

If you want to make a difference to animal cruelty/suffering, there are plenty of things closer to home you can be doing. That's what particularly annoyed me about the fox-hunting ban (not that I hunt, or even like the idea of it particularly) - the majority of people who were opposed to it were normal people who buy clothes made in 3rd world sweatshops and eat intensively farmed meat reared in terrible conditions, somehow taking the moral high ground.

 

As I said, the issue became politicised and the public are easy to outrage and are largely without any sense of irony. It's the evolution of witch burning I suppose

[BoldBear]

I remember reading an article which was written by one of the worlds most respected scientists who studied fish at the Natural History Museum in London for years and who was NOT AN ANGLER and until his death a couple of years ago was still very involved in this field and was well known and respected by the worlds leading authorities in the study of fish. Namely Dr. Alwyne Wheeler

 

The article said that if fish felt pain as we know it when a hook penetrates its mouth it would starve as they lacerate their mouths in normal feeding; when feedng on snails, sticklebacks, water insects and other sharp debris taken in during feeding, and that the lining of the fishes mouth does not bleed when lacerated as the blood vessels and sensory glands are almost absent.

 

In Peter Stones excellent book 'Bream and Barbel' Peter said; when talking to Richard Walker about the lack of fight from Barbel in the Royalty comapared to the Stour and other stretches of the Avon; Richard Walker said he had a theory that the Barbel in the Royalty had learnt that when they were hooked; if they just gave up they would find themselves back in the water faster. And that this was not through intelligence on the part of the Barbel but through repetition.

 

I have also at times had this happen, but If these fish felt pain (and not just the instinct to fight against being caught) then they would continue to putup a good fight on such waters.

NB. I don't know if its still the same today but in the 60s the Royalty was the mecca of Barbel fishing and was fished extensively.

 

I remember catching a 12oz roach on the canal near Watford which had its flesh stripped from about 3/4" in front of its tail backwards (by a pike or another predator) which was still bleeding. I ask you; would you go out for a meal if someone had just stripped the flesh off of your foot???. I certainly wouldn't.

 

The recent so called 'Scientific' studies which appeared to show that fish may feel pain were conducted using electric shocks and the fact that they responded to the shocks signified that they felt pain?????

I certainly don't plug my tackle into an electric socket when Im fishing, do you???

 

I do not believe that fish feel pain as we know it, and there have been enough examples to show me this is true. If I thought there was any chance of this then I would give up fishing.

 

But if I could; I will still carry on fishing for another 50 years.

Edited January 17, 2008 by BoldBear

[Anderoo]

I do not believe that fish feel pain as we know it, and there have been enough examples to show me this is true. If I thought there was any chance of this then I would give up fishing.

 

Good post, and me too.

[BoozleBear]

Going back to Newt's comment about post 51. I think he's right.

 

I've seen it before when somebody puts on an inflamotry post and leaves everybody to it to get angry with them, and argue amongst ourselves. They'll pop back every day or so and post, just to pick the pace back up and have a bit more of a stir.

 

I hope I am wrong but...

 

Do you lot remember the livebaiting with a mouse fella? Same thing, same pattern. And there have been others.

 

Perhaps we should all stay quiet and it'll just die down and go away just like all the previous annual-irate-debate-on-livebait.

 

Cheers,

 

Simon

[DavyR]

I certainly don't plug my tackle into an electric socket when Im fishing, do you???

 

Certainly not. I don't think I'd even consider it when I wasn't fishing.

[gozzer]

Good post, and me too.

 

Agreed, at last a good post, using opinion backed by personal experience.

 

Anyone who's been involved for a few years will all have had similar incidents to recall. I had a memorable one a couple of years ago, while fish watching on the R Wharfe.

I was there, not fishing, just chauffeuring my wife to a shop that she liked.

As usual if I'm going near water I take some bread with me. I went to the bridge to look for the usual chub and barbel that hang around the bridge supports, I was not disappointed. There were about 2 dozen chub and a half dozen barbel in view as well as the usual shoal of dace. The shoal of chub was made up of what seemed to be two distinct year classes. A dozen or so fish in the 1/12 to 2lb range, and the others about 3-4lb. These would swim together, then split, with the smaller ones wandering off upstream into deeper water, then returning. I was fascinated by the way they took the bread, the bigger ones rising slowly, or drifting to one side or the other to intercept it, while the smaller ones would dash in and some times almost take it from their mouths.

Eventually the smaller fish moved up stream again, and I was left watching the bigger fish. Then, out of the corner of my eye, I saw what I thought was a log, drifting across in the current. The 'log' was a large pike, I guessed high teens / low twenties in weight. It drifted across and downstream of the large chub, (which kept at a reasonable distance), and then it moved upstream into the deeper water.

After a couple of minutes there was a disturbance upstream where the pike (and the smaller chub) had gone. The water erupted, and a large cloud of sediment drifted down stream. The shoal of smaller fish reappeared to join the larger fish, followed moments later by a straggler, a chub of around 1 1/2lb with a gash on it's back from it's dorsal fin to it's tail, and about 1 inch wide. I could clearly see the flesh on show, and assumed that the under side would have a similar injury.

The fish joined the rest of the shoal, and continued to feed on the bread I dropped in, which I don't think it would be able to do if crippled by pain, or gripped by 'fear'. I watched this fish feed for another 15-20 mins before 'the boss' appeared and said she was ready to go.

 

Incidents such as this over the years have convinced me that any attempt to equate the actions and behaviour of fish, with that of humans is a non starter. The 'Disneyesque' view of the animal world is responsible for many a misconception, and as Andrew says the public are easily influenced if the 'facts' match a preconceived image, even if that image is wrong to start with.

 

John.

[ColinW]

We live in a ridiculous world. A world where meat eaters complain in their thousands if a TV chef shows a lamb being slaughtered.

A so-called "angler" objecting to sticking hooks in a fish is just an extension of the same hypocritical principles.

Angle means hook.

Angling means hooking.

If you don't like it, take up golf.

[Andy_1984]

think its cruel ? dont go fishing. how bout a hook being stuck in yer mouth and yanked out of the water do you think thats cruel ? how do you base one thing over the other.

 

We live in a ridiculous world. A world where meat eaters complain in their thousands if a TV chef shows a lamb being slaughtered.

A so-called "angler" objecting to sticking hooks in a fish is just an extension of the same hypocritical principles.

Angle means hook.

Angling means hooking.

If you don't like it, take up golf.

 

 

watch out for squirels in trees and lady bugs in the grass golf is cruel!

Edited January 17, 2008 by Andy_1984