Angling Trust Forum

[barry luxton]

Got a couple of queries following Leons latest posting on the A T site under A T policy heading. Used is the word restricted within the topic. As lundy for an example has had the full restrictions in force, a ntz for anything although divers are welcome to drop their anchor in the protected area.

 

After a period of five years or so they acutally make a point that it will take another 30-40 years before any real benifit could become of this.

 

So what happens after this period of time and it is found that it's all a load of busters, should the restrictions be lifted? Why is an enormous amount of taxpayers money being spent already with regards to rules and regs, sfc's the mfa etc, etc, is another level of administration required to protect what we have. Is it that what is in place is failing and or inadequate. To me all these new quangos are further total waste of time effort and money for what little that it will actually acheive.

 

Why can't these so called brainy no doubt, expensive quangos think up something along the lines of constructing, developing sea areas in a positive nature as opposed to offering up Leons word used and that is restrictions. Are they actually befreft of ideas or positive ways forward?

 

quote:

 

Marine Conservation Zones (MCZs)

Leon Roskilly Today at 8:19 pm

 

 

JNCC today revealed their draft Ecological Network Guidance today for comment.

 

The ECG will be used by regional and 'local' stakeholder groups within the MCZ project regions to determine which areas will become MCZs, and what activities will need to be restricted.

 

More information at: http://www.jncc.gov.uk/page-2409

 

Draft Guidance (PDF) at: http://www.jncc.gov.uk/PDF/MPA_170310_ENG_v8.0.pdf

[barry luxton]

Oh dear, here we have a post from the 'other' side that tipifies all that is wrong with the A T guys who think that because they have paid their 20 quid that they are in an elitist group far and above anyone else who goes and enjoys angling. Them and us is what has been created. Reg, for your information mate, i have no doubt that there are thousands, if not tens of thousands of anglers out there who are certainly not apathetic as you imply, nor are they 'joe angler' because you have paid and the majority haven't. We do care about our sport Reg very much so. All the time you come out with this type of dirge, you will certainly have guys who disagree. It matters not if the A T has decided to keep their forum private to exclude the masses as we can all read and comment through normal web sites and as far as i'm concerned the message still gets across and with regards to freedom and free speech long may it do so. Whats this about, 'getting whats coming' to them Reg, pray tell us what that is?

 

Does it not occur to the likes of yourself that there are very many who do not wish to join you elitist guys who consider that being controlled by clubs, being coralled with many restrictions and give the a t any leeway a lot more as well. When you are on the bank or where ever you have your angling fix do you have a third hand to hold the rule book, bible. That is what you have and are asking everyone else to have. Well the reply to that is thanks but no thanks. I also don't wish to be governed by an association who at present all they have demonstrated to date on the rsa is a helping hand with non-consulted restriction and bu@@er all else. Do you really think that it is the masses who are lacking? Not a very good method of trying to get them aboard is it. Much the same as the inducement from the a t to join. It's all crap mate. I'm trying to safeguard my sport that i enjoy, as the biggest threat to it is coming through the likes of defra and co, while assisted by the a t. As and when they try to engage properly with the masses, their own sea committee etc, instead of behind the door politics, no doubt many frantic hidden emails, as no doubt the elitist attitude is on a need to know basis as opposed to open and honest, transparent discussion for all. They can keep it as far as i'm concerned. I have heard nothing comfirming the apparent appointment of Leon repping the rsa regarding the new mcz's, can you elighten the masses on that one Reg, or is that going to be kept a secret as well.

 

Quote from the a t web site:

 

Re: New Draft EA Bye Laws

Reg Phillips Today at 8:13 am

 

 

John,

 

With all due respect mate, the EA bye-laws are not published on web sites and in the past, rod licences, for the average 'Joe Angler', they know they couldn't give a monkeys, they are there to inform dedicated, responsible anglers who really care about their sport. 'Joe Angler', 'Angling Apathy' is everywhere, game, coarse and sea, they will get whats coming to them sure enough. It will always be down to the dedicated angler and clubs to respect the bye-laws where they apply and take responsible steps to safeguard our sport from those who claim to be anglers, but really care about nothing but themselves.

 

I very much expect, as with our club, that the vast majority of clubs throughout the country inform their friends and members of all the rules, regulations and bye-laws that apply in their club and local area. Our club stipulates very clearly that should a member blatantly break club rules and regulations, SSFC minimum specie sizes and temporary bans and Port Contol Rules and Regulations, then they are on their own and the club will not support them.

Edited April 9, 2010 by barry luxton

[Steve Coppolo]

Our club stipulates very clearly that should a member blatantly break club rules and regulations, SSFC minimum specie sizes and temporary bans and Port Contol Rules and Regulations, then they are on their own and the club will not support them.

 

Too right! I wonder whether they, and other 'groups' of superior persons, apply that ethic to their officers, too?

 

I have to say, that post you've dragged across from the dark side, Barry, highlights everything that is going wrong with angling right now. Delusions of grandeur, mixed with an unhealthy dose of egocentricity and a generous helping of arrogance. A sure fire recipe for disaster.

[barry luxton]

Too right! I wonder whether they, and other 'groups' of superior persons, apply that ethic to their officers, too?

 

I have to say, that post you've dragged across from the dark side, Barry, highlights everything that is going wrong with angling right now. Delusions of grandeur, mixed with an unhealthy dose of egocentricity and a generous helping of arrogance. A sure fire recipe for disaster.

 

I keep thinking is it me that is 'odd' however here is another example that there must be more and more rules and regs required. With regards to a sport it is an abomination that the likes of the trust appears to enjoy and revel in.

 

Re: New Draft EA Bye Laws

Radoslaw Papiewski Today at 7:19 pm

 

 

I believe that tackle producents should take some responsibilities for spreading the new laws message around the country.

Every angler buy tackle on regural basic, so such an information, attached to the rods and reels could be one of the best way to get new regulations to everyone.

Radoslaw Papiewski

 

 

Posts: 5

Join date: 2009-12-31

Edited April 9, 2010 by barry luxton

[Yido]

A MESSAGE FROM THE DARKSIDE THERE IS !!!

 

First of all, our club rules and regulations have been thought up by our members, approved by our members via voting, implemented by our members for our members to abide by. There is no dictatorship within our committee and no member has ever broken club rules since the formation of our club, therefore the committee has never had to enforce them. This shows responsibility and commitment amongst our membership and long may it continue. We have a 60% average turnout by our members during monthly meetings and club competitions, a figure unmatched by many other angling clubs throughout the country I expect. If our members were unhappy with the rules they would simply walk away from the club, our members rejoin because they want to be part of an angling club to learn and participate in our sport and long may it continue.

 

Second, I do not think that I am a cut above the rest, I am an angler just like you guys. I believe that the other AT members on the AT forum feel exactly the same. However, it is no coincidence that these guys and girls are also committee members or hold other positions within their local angling clubs. That they make the effort to learn more about the troubles facing angling, voice their opinions and suggestions and that they want to continue to promote angling and angling politics.

 

If you want to comment on our opinions feel free to do so but first please read the entire topic before responding, then you will not misunderstand the comments raised, as in my case. For those of you who have not read the topic, my views were towards the 'Joe Angler' who catches 50 mackerel and leaves them on the floor roasting in the midday sun, only to catch another half dozen as bait when they realise that the mackerel left on the floor are a total waste. The 'Joe Angler' who leaves fishing line, hooks and rubbish everywhere after fishing because they could not be bothered to act responsibly. The 'Joe Angler' who enters competitions and catches buckets full of GG Mullet etc, weighs them in at the end of the competition, then walks down the beach and dumps them back dead into the sea, all in the name of self greed. I mention GG Mullet because in Sussex that is one specie that is famous on our shores and I have witnessed the slaughter of these fish several times.

 

Steve, as far as DEFRA.

 

I want them to recognise the amount of revenue currently raised through RSA and I want them to promote RSA as a sport as stakeholders throughout our coastal communities, a sport that is worthy of protecting for future generations.

 

I want them to act responsibily towards sustainable fish stocks and commercial maximum sustainable yield instead of protecting commercial profit at all costs to the bio-diversity of our seas.

 

Barry, Just seen your photo-Great Turbot.

 

I take it everyone has seen the AT Response to the Review of the Common Fisheries Policy. I have been waiting for your interpretation of the response with interest. As there has been no replys I take it that everyone is happy with the AT response, it would be nice if some members would agree that the AT has at least got one thing right instead of finding ways to attack on every issue.

 

Credit where credit is due.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Yido

[barry luxton]

Sorry Reg, haven't got time to read your posting in detail at the mo, too busy sorting out the important things like fishing, but i will, trust me.

 

Me turbot ain't as big as the one Elton has shown. However, i glad i'm in the turbot owners club. That's without the need to be in any other club by the way, no rules, regs or committee members over your shoulder. And i do pick me own litter up, and let a few fish go back alive, all without the need or the help from the guys in suits, amazing that don't you think.

[Sportsman]

A MESSAGE FROM THE DARKSIDE THERE IS !!!

 

First of all, our club rules and regulations have been thought up by our members, approved by our members via voting, implemented by our members for our members to abide by. There is no dictatorship within our committee and no member has ever broken club rules since the formation of our club, therefore the committee has never had to enforce them. This shows responsibility and commitment amongst our membership and long may it continue. We have a 60% average turnout by our members during monthly meetings and club competitions, a figure unmatched by many other angling clubs throughout the country I expect. If our members were unhappy with the rules they would simply walk away from the club, our members rejoin because they want to be part of an angling club to learn and participate in our sport and long may it continue.

 

Second, I do not think that I am a cut above the rest, I am an angler just like you guys. I believe that the other AT members on the AT forum feel exactly the same. However, it is no coincidence that these guys and girls are also committee members or hold other positions within their local angling clubs. That they make the effort to learn more about the troubles facing angling, voice their opinions and suggestions and that they want to continue to promote angling and angling politics.

 

If you want to comment on our opinions feel free to do so but first please read the entire topic before responding, then you will not misunderstand the comments raised, as in my case. For those of you who have not read the topic, my views were towards the 'Joe Angler' who catches 50 mackerel and leaves them on the floor roasting in the midday sun, only to catch another half dozen as bait when they realise that the mackerel left on the floor are a total waste. The 'Joe Angler' who leaves fishing line, hooks and rubbish everywhere after fishing because they could not be bothered to act responsibly. The 'Joe Angler' who enters competitions and catches buckets full of GG Mullet etc, weighs them in at the end of the competition, then walks down the beach and dumps them back dead into the sea, all in the name of self greed. I mention GG Mullet because in Sussex that is one specie that is famous on our shores and I have witnessed the slaughter of these fish several times.

 

Steve, as far as DEFRA.

 

I want them to recognise the amount of revenue currently raised through RSA and I want them to promote RSA as a sport as stakeholders throughout our coastal communities, a sport that is worthy of protecting for future generations.

 

I want them to act responsibily towards sustainable fish stocks and commercial maximum sustainable yield instead of protecting commercial profit at all costs to the bio-diversity of our seas.

 

Barry, Just seen your photo-Great Turbot.

 

I take it everyone has seen the AT Response to the Review of the Common Fisheries Policy. I have been waiting for your interpretation of the response with interest. As there has been no replys I take it that everyone is happy with the AT response, it would be nice if some members would agree that the AT has at least got one thing right instead of finding ways to attack on every issue.

 

Credit where credit is due.

 

 

Generally speaking they are the troubles facing angling

 

40 years ago, when I first started working for the NHS life was very simple. Doctors doctored, Nurses nursed, cleaners cleaned and patients got better. We were the envy of the world.

Then we started hearing words like "stakeholder" and "strategy" and "management"

Now look at it.

 

I see angling going the same way.

 

I just want to go fishing. I coarse fish, game fish and sea fish. I don't want to belong to any clubs or organisations and I don't want them to speak on my behalf.

I abide by national and local bye-laws but don't want to be governed and I don't want to be licensed or controlled or "managed"

 

I am not a stakeholder, I am an angler who just wants to get on with it

Edited April 16, 2010 by Sportsman

[Yido]

Very valid points Sportsman, but with all honesty, you have nothing to fear from AT members.

 

However, the Government is forcing these changes on all anglers, that's you, me and every other angler in this country, we do not have a say in the matter. We are to be governed like it or not, unless the next Government does a U turn all angling will be governed. Our choice is to either shape our governing body into an organisation that can represent us properly or do nothing and let government ruin our sport.

 

40 years ago we had everything we could ever wish for regarding fish stocks, but that is not the case now! Do you really want the government to tell us what we can and cannot do with our sport? Rod licence revenue, bag limits, NTZ's, catch and release, the list goes on and on. If RSA's take control of our sport we can use the changes to protect our sport for all anglers and for the marine bio-diversity of our seas. Our government has decided to walk away from RSA many times before, remember the 45cm Bass size limit, only this time they have created a governing body to take all the SH.. away from their front door coming up to an election.

 

No one, including me wants to be told what we can do, I will stop there because I did promise these guys that I would not promote the AT to them anymore and I feel that I cannot answer your reply properly without doing so.

 

All I will say is that I feel that RSA's cannot walk away from our responsibilty as anglers to protect our sport for all anglers, even those that do not care at all about RSA's. We have no choice but to become political our government has made sure of that.

 

I think that 80% of RSA's feel the same as you and the same 80% will continue to feel the same as you no matter what the AT can achieve, the same 80% that our government will enforce change upon because we they will not stand up and fight.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Yido

[Steve Coppolo]

However, the Government is forcing these changes on all anglers, that's you, me and every other angler in this country,

 

Yes, and the Angling Trust are helping them.

 

we do not have a say in the matter.

 

Oh yes we f*cking do!!

[barry luxton]

Quote:

 

Very valid points Sportsman, but with all honesty, you have nothing to fear from AT members.

 

However, the Government is forcing these changes on all anglers, that's you, me and every other angler in this country, we do not have a say in the matter. We are to be governed like it or not, unless the next Government does a U turn all angling will be governed. Our choice is to either shape our governing body into an organisation that can represent us properly or do nothing and let government ruin our sport.

 

end quote.

 

Agreeing with you Reg. It's not the members to fear, it's the hierarchy who are trying to utilise the rsa into some form of political being when nearly all are saying s@d off. To that extent the A T are on a self distruct mission and until the change comes from within, whats the point in joining. They don't consult, they have their own agenda over the rsa and remember the rsa ain't broke, why fix it. Until they start working with the rsa with a set of balls to tell the incumbant waste of space quangos there is no need to provide the rsa with another level of waste of space governence, unessersary rules, un-workable rules, pointless restrictions, all the A T are poviding the government is a platform to be a free quango for them. Again, no thanks. Go back and tell them to go away, get a life and come back and talk sence. All the A T are doing at present for the rsa is to be a mouth piece for the government regarding this panacia of mcz's that will prove to be worthless, pointless restrictions to be of no benifit to anyone or anything for many years to come if at all. This is what the A T are part of Reg.

 

For the second time i agree with you Reg, the government are trying to control the rsa. again, unless the A T can start resisting the crazy idea that it is nessesary, they can still s@d off.

The A T have done diddly squat to demonstrate that they can prevent the 'government from ruining our sport' your words. So from a personal point of view and with the power of the internet, i prefer to do it myself as opposed to the A T giving the government all the wrong signals. Is that not fair enough?