What kills and eats what?

[Vagabond]

Here is something I witnessed with my own eyes during a fishing trip in the Shetlands.

 

After a long hike over moorland, I was fishing a very long and narrow voe (that's the Shetland name for a long sea loch) on Unst - spinning for sea-trout (and yes I caught some thanks).

 

I also had a good pair of binoculars with me, as the wildlife on Unst is pretty spectacular.

 

There were plenty of sheep about, including some on the opposite bank of the voe. My attention was drawn to some strange behaviour amongst them. A ewe was limping and then fell over. A ram came and butted it several times - whether in an attempt to demand conjugal rights or just trying to assist the ewe to its feet I know not.

 

Anyway, the ewe staggered up, and promptly fell over again. Looking at it through my bins it appeared to have a broken leg. After several more fairly vigorous butting episodes from the ram, the ewe was left alone. It lay on its side, moving feebly. I carried on fishing - nothing I could do about the ewe - although only a hundred yards away across the voe, it was a walk of several miles to the voe head.

 

1. It was only a matter of minutes before the helpless sheep was attended by a Greater Black-Backed Gull. What followed was somewhat grisly, but that is the reality of nature. The gull went for the eyes, and thence into the skull. After feeding for several minutes it left.

 

2. A few minutes later a Great Skua landed on the sheep and carried on where the gull had left off. When that too was sated, it left,

 

3. ......and was followed by a Raven, which was still feeding on what it could drag out of the skull when I ceased fishing and packed up.

 

Now, if the shepherd had come into sight during stage 1, he would have rightly blamed the gull for killing his sheep, although I suspect the sheep was dying anyway of internal injuries caused by the butting.

 

During stages 2 and 3 he may have identified the skua and the raven respectively, and wrongly, as the "killers"

 

If he had arrived after the raven had left, he might have blamed the sheep's death on eagles, snowy owls or any other predator/scavenger he thought he had a grudge against.

 

******************************************

 

Reading how some of you interpret "evidence" of a dead fish photographed on the bank reminded me of that scenario.

 

These fish might have died naturally, and been dragged out of the water by mink, otter, badger, or even the photographer.

 

They MAY have been killed in the water by mink or otter before being dragged out. Equally they may have been captured by rogue anglers and left on the bank to die.

 

Once out of the water, they may have been partially eaten by mink, otter, badger, feral cats, feral dogs, rats or starving immigrants who had left their camping stove at home. My money, judging from the photos, would be on the rats.

 

But please do NOT automatically blame otters just because AT, some of its writers, and the lemmings who believe them say so.

 

I have fished rivers and lakes in otter country fairly extensively - never had any trouble in catching decent fish there.

[Dales]

A very interesting story and a point well made.

[gozzer]

Ah, you're making an assumption Dave.

 

How do you know it wasn't an otter that broke the sheeps leg in the first place.

 

John.

[ayjay]

Ah, you're making an assumption Dave.

 

How do you know it wasn't an otter that broke the sheeps leg in the first place.

 

John.

 

FAF

[Worms]

Yes, very good points indeed.

 

I seem to recall that Human, horse and pilot whale are on the official list of prey animals of the red kite......I'm sure not even the most ardent horse lover or whale watcher would condemn them as voracious predators, "decimating" the world's stocks of horses and whales.

 

As John implied, the horse and whale were probably killed by otters first

[arbocop]

Ah, you're making an assumption Dave.

 

How do you know it wasn't an otter that broke the sheeps leg in the first place.

 

John.

 

 

Nice one! Otter kills sheep. I've 'herd' that one.

 

I've witnessed herring gulls taking feral pigeons into the serpentine and drowning them, then eating them. On several occasions, the pigeon has not been entirely dead whilst being torn open by the gull.

[chesters1]

Here is something I witnessed with my own eyes during a fishing trip in the Shetlands.

 

After a long hike over moorland, I was fishing a very long and narrow voe (that's the Shetland name for a long sea loch) on Unst - spinning for sea-trout (and yes I caught some thanks).

 

I also had a good pair of binoculars with me, as the wildlife on Unst is pretty spectacular.

 

There were plenty of sheep about, including some on the opposite bank of the voe. My attention was drawn to some strange behaviour amongst them. A ewe was limping and then fell over. A ram came and butted it several times - whether in an attempt to demand conjugal rights or just trying to assist the ewe to its feet I know not.

 

Anyway, the ewe staggered up, and promptly fell over again. Looking at it through my bins it appeared to have a broken leg. After several more fairly vigorous butting episodes from the ram, the ewe was left alone. It lay on its side, moving feebly. I carried on fishing - nothing I could do about the ewe - although only a hundred yards away across the voe, it was a walk of several miles to the voe head.

 

1. It was only a matter of minutes before the helpless sheep was attended by a Greater Black-Backed Gull. What followed was somewhat grisly, but that is the reality of nature. The gull went for the eyes, and thence into the skull. After feeding for several minutes it left.

 

2. A few minutes later a Great Skua landed on the sheep and carried on where the gull had left off. When that too was sated, it left,

 

3. ......and was followed by a Raven, which was still feeding on what it could drag out of the skull when I ceased fishing and packed up.

 

Now, if the shepherd had come into sight during stage 1, he would have rightly blamed the gull for killing his sheep, although I suspect the sheep was dying anyway of internal injuries caused by the butting.

 

During stages 2 and 3 he may have identified the skua and the raven respectively, and wrongly, as the "killers"

 

If he had arrived after the raven had left, he might have blamed the sheep's death on eagles, snowy owls or any other predator/scavenger he thought he had a grudge against.

 

******************************************

 

Reading how some of you interpret "evidence" of a dead fish photographed on the bank reminded me of that scenario.

 

These fish might have died naturally, and been dragged out of the water by mink, otter, badger, or even the photographer.

 

They MAY have been killed in the water by mink or otter before being dragged out. Equally they may have been captured by rogue anglers and left on the bank to die.

 

Once out of the water, they may have been partially eaten by mink, otter, badger, feral cats, feral dogs, rats or starving immigrants who had left their camping stove at home. My money, judging from the photos, would be on the rats.

 

But please do NOT automatically blame otters just because AT, some of its writers, and the lemmings who believe them say so.

 

I have fished rivers and lakes in otter country fairly extensively - never had any trouble in catching decent fish there.

 

i have seen fish merely jump out of the water and strand themselves ,had someone's prize koi do the same and a passing heron spotted it and landed by it no doubt the owner gazing out of the window seeing the heron standing by the body jump to the conclusion the heron was the smoking gun.

mink on the whole do more harm to birds and mammals than fish.

are cormorants merely following the only course they have because we've eaten their dinner in the sea?

are otters eating fish because all the once abundant eels gone thanks to constant elver harvesting ,when you think about it except in the sheeps case man is behind all of the scenarios i list

Edited January 20, 2010 by chesters1

[Jeffwill]

Here is something I witnessed with my own eyes during a fishing trip in the Shetlands.

 

After a long hike over moorland, I was fishing a very long and narrow voe (that's the Shetland name for a long sea loch) on Unst - spinning for sea-trout (and yes I caught some thanks).

 

I also had a good pair of binoculars with me, as the wildlife on Unst is pretty spectacular.

 

There were plenty of sheep about, including some on the opposite bank of the voe. My attention was drawn to some strange behaviour amongst them. A ewe was limping and then fell over. A ram came and butted it several times - whether in an attempt to demand conjugal rights or just trying to assist the ewe to its feet I know not.

 

Anyway, the ewe staggered up, and promptly fell over again. Looking at it through my bins it appeared to have a broken leg. After several more fairly vigorous butting episodes from the ram, the ewe was left alone. It lay on its side, moving feebly. I carried on fishing - nothing I could do about the ewe - although only a hundred yards away across the voe, it was a walk of several miles to the voe head.

 

1. It was only a matter of minutes before the helpless sheep was attended by a Greater Black-Backed Gull. What followed was somewhat grisly, but that is the reality of nature. The gull went for the eyes, and thence into the skull. After feeding for several minutes it left.

 

2. A few minutes later a Great Skua landed on the sheep and carried on where the gull had left off. When that too was sated, it left,

 

3. ......and was followed by a Raven, which was still feeding on what it could drag out of the skull when I ceased fishing and packed up.

 

Now, if the shepherd had come into sight during stage 1, he would have rightly blamed the gull for killing his sheep, although I suspect the sheep was dying anyway of internal injuries caused by the butting.

 

During stages 2 and 3 he may have identified the skua and the raven respectively, and wrongly, as the "killers"

 

If he had arrived after the raven had left, he might have blamed the sheep's death on eagles, snowy owls or any other predator/scavenger he thought he had a grudge against.

 

******************************************

 

Reading how some of you interpret "evidence" of a dead fish photographed on the bank reminded me of that scenario.

 

These fish might have died naturally, and been dragged out of the water by mink, otter, badger, or even the photographer.

 

They MAY have been killed in the water by mink or otter before being dragged out. Equally they may have been captured by rogue anglers and left on the bank to die.

 

Once out of the water, they may have been partially eaten by mink, otter, badger, feral cats, feral dogs, rats or starving immigrants who had left their camping stove at home. My money, judging from the photos, would be on the rats.

 

But please do NOT automatically blame otters just because AT, some of its writers, and the lemmings who believe them say so.

 

I have fished rivers and lakes in otter country fairly extensively - never had any trouble in catching decent fish there.

 

 

Of all livestock sheep are the hardest to farm, they get ill &/or die at the drop of a hat in conditions other livestock thrives. Any farmer will tell you that. But what farmers would never blame for taking down and killing a healthy sheep would be a gull, or a skua, or a raven.......they are the opportunists after the event, which in your example and your own words, is exactly what happened.

 

The analogy needs reworking

[Worms]

Of all livestock sheep are the hardest to farm, they get ill &/or die at the drop of a hat in conditions other livestock thrives. Any farmer will tell you that. But what farmers would never blame for taking down and killing a healthy sheep would be a gull, or a skua, or a raven.......they are the opportunists after the event, which in your example and your own words, is exactly what happened.

 

The analogy needs reworking

I guess that Vagabond was perhaps using it as an example not as an absolute. How about this one Jeff.

 

One evening a badger was seen trying to drag a ewes carcass under a fence. The woman who saw it immediately started ranting about badgers killing sheep. I hadn't seen what killed the animal but, on inspection (I was working nearby) the ewe had obviously been dead for a couple of days. The woman still continued her tirade of abuse against badgers...........

 

A day or so later the story had got to the pub about how said (born and bred) countrywoman had fought off a badger that was trying to drag her still struggling ewe under a fence! There were loads of farmworkers, countrymen and a gamekeeper's assistant who swore the tale was true until I pointed out that I had witnessed the fact that the sheep was very very dead. The story still gets trotted out occasionally after a few pints on long winter nights!

[Jeffwill]

I guess that Vagabond was perhaps using it as an example not as an absolute. How about this one Jeff.

 

One evening a badger was seen trying to drag a ewes carcass under a fence. The woman who saw it immediately started ranting about badgers killing sheep. I hadn't seen what killed the animal but, on inspection (I was working nearby) the ewe had obviously been dead for a couple of days. The woman still continued her tirade of abuse against badgers...........

 

A day or so later the story had got to the pub about how said (born and bred) countrywoman had fought off a badger that was trying to drag her still struggling ewe under a fence! There were loads of farmworkers, countrymen and a gamekeeper's assistant who swore the tale was true until I pointed out that I had witnessed the fact that the sheep was very very dead. The story still gets trotted out occasionally after a few pints on long winter nights!

 

Nick, if the ewe wasnt so heavy and smelly wet, you could have acted out the monty python dead ewe (parrot) sketch.......for the lady? Rigor mortis would have helped with the sound effects as you banged it on the floor